Thread: Hunter shot in Kaimai Range near Te Aroha

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Still dancing around the question @Tahr. It's either a possibility for you or it's not. If you are not 110% certain you will never shoot another human in the Bush then maybe take up golf, try not to hit anyone with the ball ...

Your assertion is flawed Ryan. Does your unequivocal certainty keep other hunters' more safe than my uncertainty does?

My view is that it is a possibility for everyone, including yourself and myself. However, I do and will do everything in my human powers to ensure that it never happens. I back my vulnerability to keep others' safe, not my certainty that I will do the right thing.

I dislike golf.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Your assertion is flawed Ryan. Does your unequivocal certainty keep other hunters' more safe than my uncertainty does?

Well I know if you lined up a team of blokes on one side that were unsure if they might shoot someone in the Bush, and a team on the other side that were 100% certain they never would, and then asked me which bunch of blokes do you want in the Bush with you? I'm choosing the 100% sure team every time.
Anyone who has ever shot someone in the Bush can tell me until they are blue in the face that they were certain it was a deer and all their other silly excuses but I'm not buying it, its not like any of them are ever going to admit the truth which is that no, they weren't 100% certain it was a deer.

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Well I know if you lined up a team of blokes on one side that were unsure if they might shoot someone in the Bush, and a team on the other side that were 100% certain they never would, and then asked me which bunch of blokes do you want in the Bush with you? I'm choosing the 100% sure team every time.
Anyone who has ever shot someone in the Bush can tell me until they are blue in the face that they were certain it was a deer and all their other silly excuses but I'm not buying it, its not like any of them are ever going to admit the truth which is that no, they weren't 100% certain it was a deer.

Im not so sure Ryan, i believe that anyone that thinks that they are above this, or that this situation could never happen to them, could potentially be quite dangerous.

My thinking is that if a person thought that theres no way that they could make this mistake, then it will not always be at front of mind. Whereas if we think that we all have the potential to make this mistake, then surely that must scare us to a certain degree and always be front of mind and we put our own proccedure in place where we perform multiple checks to confirm beyond all doubt that what we are about to shoot is indeed the intended target.

Originally Posted by GWH

Im not so sure Ryan, i believe that anyone that thinks that they are above this, or that this situation could never happen to them, could potentially be quite dangerous.

My thinking is that if a person thought that theres no way that they could make this mistake, then it will not always be at front of mind. Whereas if we think that we all have the potential to make this mistake, then surely that must scare us to a certain degree and always be front of mind and we put our own proccedure in place where we perform multiple checks to confirm beyond all doubt that what we are about to shoot is indeed the intended target.

Yea.... the person that knows they won't ever shoot a human in the Bush is more dangerous than the person who wouldn't put it past themselves... do you guys actually think before you open your mouths/type things?

Remember that NZDA-branch-President, who screamed for blood when a woman was tragically shot, while cleaning her teeth.? Turangi campsite ? A year or two later. he shot a 29yr old through the head, and fled the scene...It can POTENTIALLY happen !...and all your comments are pretty-much the same as his, at the time . We DO need to understand it more..Dave

yup considering just out of Kumara on the coast had his 12 point pet stag shot out of paddock. so there are people out there who disregard the rules no matter what.
Not quite the same as firearms safety, but more in the vein of the stag only idea. If they can do that, they may still shoot a hind.
Mind you with the amount I get out, if I was looking for a stag and wasn't seeing much a hind may find its way to the freezer on the last day just so the trip wasn't a complete bust?
Maybe not though as I usually only target what I'm originally after but if I can imagine it, I'm sure someone else would do it.

Imo there is a huge difference in how human factors affect aviation and hunting. Apart from maybe some visual references they should not be compared.

Having concrete standards whether you are meat shooting or trophy hunting will also help prevent poor decision making imo.

Attitude and mindset are where the problem is imo.

Just a few days ago I had a stag come in on me after yelling out "How are ya going" several times. We were on a ridge and I only roared the once around 5 mins earlier after smelling a stag had been up the ridge where we were.

It had the most pathetic roar and groan I have heard from a deer. I was pretty sure it was another hunter.

My mutt and I got a good look at him as he popped over a knob in front of us in steepish bush. He had that much momentum he just kept running 5 yrds past us and down hill. Dog almost yanked me down the hill after him.




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All the I saw a deer and took 2 minutes to identify the target through both sight and binos stories would be more believable if there were some stories where the offending Hunter just said I heard a deer coming and popped the first thing I saw. No way did everybody that shot somebody spend the amount of time identifying their target as they say they do; it's the east get out of trouble card and as long as they say it amd can convince somebody it's true the they will feel a little bit better about themselves

I always hunt with a dog several advantages - indicating game being one, two a good dog is great company, three they hear & smell better than us multiple times one of my dogs have picked human sound and scent before me

Originally Posted by Bonecrusher

I always hunt with a dog several advantages - indicating game being one, two a good dog is great company, three they hear & smell better than us multiple times one of my dogs have picked human sound and scent before me

BUT ~~
I know of another case where a chap was shot (he lived - minus half his shoulder from a 270) In Pureora again :-(
He was huddled into a Toe Toe bush on edge of clearing on evening with his dog - shot from 200m - he never knew what hit hime - woke up in Hamilton Hospital later

I was going to make this comment to @R93
The GSP breed are the worst - but any 4 legged animal tucked beside you is added danger
I used to put a knitted jersey on my GSP in blue - but it did not stay that blue for long

Yes - your dog would possible growl at the approach of another hunter - but its not you that we are talking about here - its another hunter shooting at you or your dog

Originally Posted by Sarvo

BUT ~~
I know of another case where a chap was shot (he lived - minus half his shoulder from a 270) In Pureora again :-(
He was huddled into a Toe Toe bush on edge of clearing on evening with his dog - shot from 200m - he never knew what hit hime - woke up in Hamilton Hospital later

I was going to make this comment to @R93
The GSP breed are the worst - but any 4 legged animal tucked beside you is added danger
I used to put a knitted jersey on my GSP in blue - but it did not stay that blue for long

Yes - your dog would possible growl at the approach of another hunter - but its not you that we are talking about here - its another hunter shooting at you or your dog

Not growl indicate 100% I would know that something or someone was incoming with a Labrador working 3M in front of you he would display signs, air scenting , when his tail stops wagging it is game on. It is just safer for several reasons if you have a well trained dog working for you

Originally Posted by Bonecrusher

Not growl indicate 100% I would know that something or someone was incoming with a Labrador working 3M in front of you he would display signs, air scenting , when his tail stops wagging it is game on. It is just safer for several reasons if you have a well trained dog working for you

I have never known a dog to "indicate" another human
But I do not think you have understood my point - spoken from near on 50 years experience with dogs and people :-)

Originally Posted by Sarvo

I have never known a dog to "indicate" another human
But I do not think you have understood my point - spoken from near on 50 years experience with dogs and people :-)

Question what does a Police dog do.... mate I will hit your fifty and raise you 5 ;-)

Anyone that believes they're completely 100% infallible to this scenario is kidding themselves.
Also, no one is suggesting it as an excuse to escape blame, it's just part of why it happens.
Error due to human factors are a well studied and understood fact. We use this knowledge to change the way in which we reach conclusions and make decisions.

Expansion on how to 'identifying your target' needs to be hunter driven.
Is this a game animal yes/no doesn't cut it.
Is this another hunter? Is it a deer? What type of deer is it? What sex is the deer? Is this another hunter? Why am I sure I'm looking at a deer?

The brain can and will try to rationalise what the eyes see and ears hear in order to come up with favourable outcomes. Some people are more susceptible and things like fatigue, past experience, expectation and mood come into play also.

Anyone ever been sitting at the traffic lights, you zone out a little and the truck in the lane next to you starts rolling forwards on a filter light and you almost put the brake pedal through the floor because you think your rolling backwards relative to the other traffic.
For a split second you were positive your stationary vehicle was moving.

I think I have the right in my own country to harvest meat rut or no rut if we start down that track you may as well just ban shooting altogether then no one will get shot will they if you choose to take the shot your responsible for the out come no fuking excuses