Thread: Poaching, let's get this straight

Originally Posted by Sidney

Illegal access is not an offence.... trespass is the term you are looking for... and basically you only trespass after having been told to leave and you fail to do so.

Is it trespassing if there is a sign saying that you can't be there without permission? Or does someone have to catch you and verbally ask you to leave?

Originally Posted by square1

Is it trespassing if there is a sign saying that you can't be there without permission? Or does someone have to catch you and verbally ask you to leave?

As far as I understand I can trespass you today. I don't have to know you, or even have any reason for doing so. I can trespass you even if you are in another island from me.

Weren't the cops doing blanket trespass in Southland on people on certain country roads?

Originally Posted by square1

Is it trespassing if there is a sign saying that you can't be there without permission? Or does someone have to catch you and verbally ask you to leave?

To be really honest I am not sure that a sign is sufficient. What I do know is that trespass is not completed until you have been warned to leave and failed to do so. I would think that you would have to establish that the sign had been seen, that the contents of the warning on the sign were legally sufficient to constitute a legal warning. The "trespassers will be prosecuted" sign is not legally sufficient to met the legal requirements of notice.

There are other offences when firearms are involved when it comes to being unlawfully on private property... as pointed out by others...

Brad...

In so far as this thread may educate some about their legal responsibilities or rights it is not a waste of time. Provided of course we concentrate on the facts and not the emotional opinion.... and to be honest the emotion appears to be mostly from a landowner perspective...

I take your point about about mushrooms and apples. I would also make the point that a lot of people are a lot more precious these days than they used to be about such things. It may have always been technically wrong to jump the fence for a few mushrooms, but in the past few worried about it and we are the poorer for being so indignant now.

People also keep harping on about the similarities regarding private property whilst ignoring the very obvious differences.. it is not the same for the simple reason of proximity. Wandering around my 800 square meter section with a firearm in a built up residential area, is entirely different to some furtive poacher sneaking around your back paddock trying not to attract your attention whilst in the pursuit of a wild animal that does not belong to you.

That being said it is illegal to do so... if you wish to take that risk, to potentially lose your firearms licence, to be convicted of an offence with firearms which may affect your travel plans and immigrant status for other countries, then I guess you can.... personally I would think that it may not be worth the risk...

Originally Posted by Sidney

To be really honest I am not sure that a sign is sufficient. What I do know is that trespass is not completed until you have been warned to leave and failed to do so. I would think that you would have to establish that the sign had been seen, that the contents of the warning on the sign were legally sufficient to constitute a legal warning. The "trespassers will be prosecuted" sign is not legally sufficient to met the legal requirements of notice.

There are other offences when firearms are involved when it comes to being unlawfully on private property... as pointed out by others...

Brad...

In so far as this thread may educate some about their legal responsibilities or rights it is not a waste of time. Provided of course we concentrate on the facts and not the emotional opinion.... and to be honest the emotion appears to be mostly from a landowner perspective...

I take your point about about mushrooms and apples. I would also make the point that a lot of people are a lot more precious these days than they used to be about such things. It may have always been technically wrong to jump the fence for a few mushrooms, but in the past few worried about it and we are the poorer for being so indignant now.

People also keep harping on about the similarities regarding private property whilst ignoring the very obvious differences.. it is not the same for the simple reason of proximity. Wandering around my 800 square meter section with a firearm in a built up residential area, is entirely different to some furtive poacher sneaking around your back paddock trying not to attract your attention whilst in the pursuit of a wild animal that does not belong to you.

That being said it is illegal to do so... if you wish to take that risk, to potentially lose your firearms licence, to be convicted of an offence with firearms which may affect your travel plans and immigrant status for other countries, then I guess you can.... personally I would think that it may not be worth the risk...

I didn't want two post on this retarded thread again but.......you made me bite.
It no wonder farmers are more (precious) these days, 20 years ago stock wasn't getting shot by fucktards that cant find a deer!
Not that long ago a local framer at a popular road end had the shit kicked out off him by hunters who had left a gate open on his farm.
As for your last statement about me wondering around your town section with a gun, how is that any different two you wondering around my farm when I'm out there with my family?

Originally Posted by BRADS

As for your last statement about me wondering around your town section with a gun, how is that any different two you wondering around my farm when I'm out there with my family?

Go and shoot some hedgehogs in his garden, they are unwanted pests after all!

Originally Posted by BRADS

I didn't want two post on this retarded thread again but.......you made me bite.
It no wonder farmers are more (precious) these days, 20 years ago stock wasn't getting shot by fucktards that cant find a deer!
Not that long ago a local framer at a popular road end had the shit kicked out off him by hunters who had left a gate open on his farm.
As for your last statement about me wondering around your town section with a gun, how is that any different two you wondering around my farm when I'm out there with my family?

Do you understand the word proximately?

Statistically you would be in more danger crossing the street in Christchurch...

By the way, you don't have higher ground in this discussion, I have been a farmer and landowner as well as a few other things whilst currently a townie...

There is no justification for shooting stock, damaging property or assaulting people - but we aren't talking about poachers now are we now... we are talking about criminals...

It may be convenient for you to lump all together, but I would wager you never see most poachers, cause they don't wannabe seen... they don't damage your property, kill your stock or assault you...

It would seem to me, that the "increase in poaching"? coincides with increasing interest in hunting and reducing access to private property, because farmers now tend to view wild animals that they do not own, as a resource.

It would also seem to me that landowners are more indignant (because of their perception of ownership) about all this, and because they spend most of their time talking to themselves and not developing communication skills, they may not tend to engage particularly well with small bands of scruffy men carrying firearms. From a past life, a place of self righteousness and authority is no substitute for well developed communication skills, particularly when those you are dealing with may well lack in these areas as well.

If you think I lack empathy with the issues, you are mistaken and yes we need to deal with the idiots.... there are plenty of laws to do that... but a lot less paranoia is a better solution than a lot more... we don't want to turn into americans...

Originally Posted by Sidney

Do you understand the word proximately?

Statistically you would be in more danger crossing the street in Christchurch...

By the way, you don't have higher ground in this discussion, I have been a farmer and landowner as well as a few other things whilst currently a townie...

There is no justification for shooting stock, damaging property or assaulting people - but we aren't talking about poachers now are we now... we are talking about criminals...

It may be convenient for you to lump all together, but I would wager you never see most poachers, cause they don't wannabe seen... they don't damage your property, kill your stock or assault you...

It would seem to me, that the "increase in poaching"? coincides with increasing interest in hunting and reducing access to private property, because farmers now tend to view wild animals that they do not own, as a resource.

It would also seem to me that landowners are more indignant (because of their perception of ownership) about all this, and because they spend most of their time talking to themselves and not developing communication skills, they may not tend to engage particularly well with small bands of scruffy men carrying firearms. From a past life, a place of self righteousness and authority is no substitute for well developed communication skills, particularly when those you are dealing with may well lack in these areas as well.

If you think I lack empathy with the issues, you are mistaken and yes we need to deal with the idiots.... there are plenty of laws to do that... but a lot less paranoia is a better solution than a lot more... we don't want to turn into americans...

Let's just agree two to disagree
And keep this forum the great place it is.
You are right I'm a simple farmer with zero communication skills.
And often really struggle to say what I want how I want
I lump them all together cause to me there all the same. We often catch/see poachers,
I think if you think your not being watched these days your wrong. Going back a few weeks I caught a guy just on dark on a rainy Sunday night he thought he'd have the place two himself, he go the fright of his life
I don't no any farmers who view the wild animals as a resource most still would rather that grass for there stock, but the ones with a problem would rather pay a chopper crew than open it up two the public

From a simple mans view PerazziSC3 has summed it end of story


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Originally Posted by Sidney

Do you understand the word proximately?

Statistically you would be in more danger crossing the street in Christchurch...

By the way, you don't have higher ground in this discussion, I have been a farmer and landowner as well as a few other things whilst currently a townie...

There is no justification for shooting stock, damaging property or assaulting people - but we aren't talking about poachers now are we now... we are talking about criminals...

It may be convenient for you to lump all together, but I would wager you never see most poachers, cause they don't wannabe seen... they don't damage your property, kill your stock or assault you...

It would seem to me, that the "increase in poaching"? coincides with increasing interest in hunting and reducing access to private property, because farmers now tend to view wild animals that they do not own, as a resource.

It would also seem to me that landowners are more indignant (because of their perception of ownership) about all this, and because they spend most of their time talking to themselves and not developing communication skills, they may not tend to engage particularly well with small bands of scruffy men carrying firearms. From a past life, a place of self righteousness and authority is no substitute for well developed communication skills, particularly when those you are dealing with may well lack in these areas as well.

If you think I lack empathy with the issues, you are mistaken and yes we need to deal with the idiots.... there are plenty of laws to do that... but a lot less paranoia is a better solution than a lot more... we don't want to turn into americans...

Seems simple to me - stay off private property - don't shoot anywhere that isn't on your fukn open area Permit, end of saga. anyone arguing against that is a dreamy wanker. why try to rationalise all the bullshit?