Thread: Is there anyone out there who is still concerned about beating Covid19?

Just wondering on this. Is anyone actually still concerned about this (or maybe never was)? Are there people out there on this forum who are still thinking that whatever we need to do over the next month or so will be worth the thought of not hunting for a short while longer? Is anyone concerned about the cost in human life and to the long term impacts on the economy if we don't get this right first time and now? Is anyone less concerned about what others are doing or getting and more about doing the right thing themselves personally? Is anyone worried more about drawing a line in the sand and not pushing the boundary to the very edge? Is anyone thinking more about other people's loved ones and the good of our dear country and less about a few small and short term personal gains? Is anyone thinking that maybe the government is so overwhelmed with decisions that need to be made quickly and as they arise, that they might get the odd thing wrong and that this is not some big conspiracy theory against hunters? Is anyone realistic and understands that policy people are not usually hunters and are learning as they go? Does anyone understand that our hunting organisations are working tirelessly behind the scenes for us and our time would be better spent supporting them rather than ranting on line? Does anyone think that maybe as much as we all REALLY REALLY love hunting and all it entails, that us getting out there ASAP might not be the biggest issue facing the country at the moment? Is there anyone who might be happy that someone else might be able to get out for a hunt and realise a dream, even if they cant for a bit longer? Is there anyone who might be happy to at least just get out and go for a local rabbit hunt with their kid, even though they might have to wait a whole two more weeks to hunt bull tahr in Westland?

Just wondering..........................I really hope there is.

The virus cannot be eliminated / eradicated no matter how much virtue is brought to any such discussion.

The NZ economy can be and has been trashed in futile pursuit of that foolish goal.

If you are old enough to have adult children, they will pay the price over years.

Your diatribe is mistaken and misdirected.

Originally Posted by sightpicture

The virus cannot be eliminated / eradicated no matter how much virtue is brought to any such discussion.

The NZ economy can be and has been trashed in futile pursuit of that foolish goal.

If you are old enough to have adult children, they will pay the price over years.

Your diatribe is mistaken and misdirected.

Thanks. I am fully aware of issues re its ongoing persistance and the massive issues around our econmy. I think that this in no way is a diatribe (fancy word for a rant - I'm not that illiterate) and more pondering things. It is meant less as a pondering on C19 and more as a pondering on human nature. For me this has been the take home message from all of this. I have been both inspired at times and also saddened at others. Beat it or not there is no doubt that many of our loved ones are currently alive because of what we have done so far. Maybe even ourselves!

If I'm not mistaken, we might contain C19, but we won't wipe it out, which will mean it will flare up in places. Then we'll have to sort out our response to it.

So as a country we are likely to go from level 4 to level 3 then 2, and possibly back to 4 if necessary.

I doubt this will be over soon.

We will have to be patient, and keep the big picture in mind.

The virus once it infects someone (and its incubation period is 4-7 days, overall between 2-14 days, sometimes as much as 21+ days) takes another 2-3 weeks to kill the - fortunately small - percentage of its victims where it turns lethal.

So what "we" did 4 weeks ago has pretty much nothing to do with many people currently being alive who would otherwise be dying or dead. The facts of biology and pathology simply do not support that narrative.

It may prove in the next few weeks that we have kept more people from dying than otherwise; but at the time of writing, that is a hope not a fact.

It is also a fact that as an island nation, had we shut our borders and quarantined inbound passengers properly many weeks ago as many of us said we should do, we would not be in our current - and in our future - economic mess.

Originally Posted by sightpicture

The virus once it infects someone (and its incubation period is 4-7 days, overall between 2-14 days, sometimes as much as 21+ days) takes another 2-3 weeks to kill the - fortunately small - percentage of its victims where it turns lethal.

So what "we" did 4 weeks ago has pretty much nothing to do with many people currently being alive who would otherwise be dying or dead. The facts of biology and pathology simply do not support that narrative.

It may prove in the next few weeks that we have kept more people from dying than otherwise; but at the time of writing, that is a hope not a fact.

It is also a fact that as an island nation, had we shut our borders and quarantined inbound passengers properly many weeks ago as many of us said we should do, we would not be in our current - and in our future - economic mess.

+1 This

Does anyone understand that our hunting organisations are working tirelessly behind the scenes for us and our time would be better spent supporting them rather than ranting on line?

Sorry, I call rubbish on that. They have done very little that has caused any change.

They did nothing to change the status in level 4

Labour said in lvl 3 it wouldnt allow hunting but went on to allow other more risky sports. They were called out on it, they had no choice but backtrack. The compromise so Labour wouldnt loose face but appease the hunters was to allow it on private land but not on public land (clearly the public have no say as to what goes on on public land which is another story). That had about 0.0001% influence from hunting organisations.

Before that, what did they do after the mosque attack? COLFO got stuck in, with very little support from any other organisations, the shooting community or hunting community. NZDA did diddly squat along with Pistol NZ etc.

They have a bit of a murmur every now and then which is the only indication these organisations are still alive but in my opinion, the support they have shown their members and standing up against govt and police is fuck all. Sorry.

So please remind me what are they tirelessly working behind the scenes on.

Not concerned about "beating covid-19, I more concerned about the economic events that will become evident in the next 2-4 months.

I think the number of actual fatlities from CV-19 will be far less than the number from the economic fall out.

I already know many people, my brother included who after the 5 weeks of "Lock Down" will not be returning to their jobs which 5 weeks ago was not even a thought in their heads!

Originally Posted by mikee

Not concerned about "beating covid-19, I more concerned about the economic events that will become evident in the next 2-4 months.

I think the number of actual fatlities from CV-19 will be far less than the number from the economic fall out.

I already know many people, my brother included who after the 5 weeks of "Lock Down" will not be returning to their jobs which 5 weeks ago was not even a thought in their heads!

Yesterday was watching a COVID-19 feature including an interview from Sweden. Their economy is moving on, they chose to keep going despite 1000+ deaths, only the most vulnerable in lockdown. The NZ reporter was incredulous, but the Swede cut him off, "We need our economy to have our health service".

About the stress effect, across the other side of the world (from the Economist) New York is seeing other effects than just COVID-19:

Originally Posted by Cordite

Attachment 137425

What a curious set of graphs. I'd be interested to know of any death that doesn't involve cardiac arrest. That would be something of a medical miracle! Also, I wonder if these cardiac arrests occurred in patients who tested negative for SARS-CoV-2. If not, or unknown, it could that these people had a cardiac arrest secondary to Covid-19. Maybe there's more information in the article? I can't access it.

Look at this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121...ding-to-a-poll

Originally Posted by Tahr

Look at this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121...ding-to-a-poll

Yeah, its on Stuff, thats why the govt just threw $50 million at the media, so they can keep publishing that sort of rot. The govts propaganda campaigns especially on TV have clearly had a huge success.

Originally Posted by Mr Browning

Yeah, its on Stuff, thats why the govt just threw $50 million at the media, so they can keep publishing that sort of rot. The govts propaganda campaigns especially on TV have clearly had a huge success.

Maybe, but anecdotally there does seem to be wide support for the lock down and the Gov's approach. Regardless of the source I would say that its close to the mark

This forum is a very narrow lens to speculate through.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Maybe, but anecdotally there does seem to be wide support for the lock down and the Gov's approach. Regardless of the source I would say that its close to the mark

As I said, the propaganda machine has had good success. When you are bombed constantly with Covid-19 announcements of when you can drive your car, when you leave your house, when you can do this that and the other thing and reinforced with "it will save lives" or "it will make NZ safer" and similar. Then that is what everyone believes after a while.

The amount of people who keep on saying we should lock down for another 4 weeks to save lives, and "people above businesses" and how quick they are to claim business is irrelevant to the economy is amazing. They seem to have no idea where their money comes from.

You quiz them about it, and they have no answer, no solution, dont even know why they think the way they do, they just dont know. What is clear is how brain washed they have become. They have no thoughts of their own, just know what is drilled into them.

I fully believe that figure is close to the mark as you say, and I find that sad. Because that to me shows me the percentage of people brain washed (Im not saying 80% are, just a good percentage).

There seems to be so many gullible people in NZ who believe anything, it is little wonder NZ looses millions of dollars to scammers each year. It honestly saddens me. I reinforce with my customers every other week to watch out and educate them to be wiser and more savvy on the internet, I wish more people in general were educated and savvy in life and were not just followers and so easily led.

My opinion only.

A narrow lens? Hmmm, maybe people here a just more grounded and see a bit more clearly through the bs than the average person. A little more individual and dont posses the pack mentality like sheep necessarily in general. I dont know. Just my thoughts.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Maybe, but anecdotally there does seem to be wide support for the lock down and the Gov's approach. Regardless of the source I would say that its close to the mark

This forum is a very narrow lens to speculate through.

Using stuff as a source of news would indicate a preference, participating in a poll on Stuff would be another run through the drafting race, so while I agree this site can be somewhat myopic I think a stuff poll could be seen in a similar light. Not that it matters though as a poll today cant predict or change whats coming. Today many are doing ok, enjoying some enforced time off, still have a few dollars. But the Govt check book is rapidly approaching the last leaf. Robinson claims debt can run up to 50% ( god help us) of GDP but the candle is burning from both ends, as fast as he is handing out money our GDP is shrinking so this support will come to grinding halt. The mood of the voters will be interesting come election time.