Thread: Is buying 69 firearms from GunCity in 18 months signs of an addiction ?

Originally Posted by gimp

I would rather see the money spent on positive results-focussed rehabilitation and prevention programs rather than emotive "punish them!!" mentality. Stop crime before it happens through reducing poverty etc maybe, cos GETTING TOUGH ON CRIME pretty much hasn't worked awesome ever

It's not an 'emotive "punish them!!"', I think generally it's a little comfortable in there. What sort of prevention programs do you think could be implemented? Do convicts generally have a desire to be rehabilitated?

Originally Posted by gimp

I would rather see the money spent on positive results-focussed rehabilitation and prevention programs rather than emotive "punish them!!" mentality. Stop crime before it happens through reducing poverty etc maybe, cos GETTING TOUGH ON CRIME pretty much hasn't worked awesome ever

Rehab programmes don't work. Ask any long time CO and they'll tell you that crims stop offending when they decide they're sick of getting locked up and not before. Some of the rehab programmes we run in NZ cost upwards of $60k per person, per year. These are the most effective programmes, usually for sex offenders, and these programmes reduce reoffending by a little over 10% for those that participate. That doesn't count the $90k per year it costs to lock them up. Some of the other programmes run in NZ prisons actually make people more likely to offend and we spend over a $billion per year to keep doing something that doesn't work. Mostly we do it because apparently getting tough on crime is a vote winner.

Of the 8k plus people imprisoned at any one time in NZ, guess how many are back in prison five years after getting out? After all the money we spend 'rehabilitating' and 'reintegrating' them back into the community....

50%. That's right. Half of the people in prison now will be back in prison within 5 years. It keeps the justice system ticking over nicely though, and keeps a lot of police, lawyers, judges, prison officers and probation staff in a fairly well paid lifestyle.

What does stop people committing crimes? A decent education, a job, an environment where a prison record is not the norm, or a rite of passage. But hey, it isn't sexy (or a vote winner) to spend money on things like that.

Not that I am arguing the point but how is one lethal injection more expensive than food housing health care etc for 60 odd years?

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Not that I am arguing the point but how is one lethal injection more expensive than food housing health care etc for 60 odd years?

appeals process etc. and you HAVE to have an appeals process and a muuuuch higher standard of proof, to prevent innocent people getting put to death. Make it cheaper, more innocent people WILL be killed by the state.

Yes Tipple got in the shit for breaching ITAR basically, as I understand it.

I can understand hunters and casual shooters thinking "whats wrong with registration? It isn't that big of an inconvenience". My answer to that is it would be a huge inconvenience for guys like me and some of my friends who buy, sell and trade firearms often. It is enough of a pain in the ass having to get mail order forms and import permits, if the AO isn't in, I'm shit out of luck. I recently tried to jack up custody of an AR from gimp, by the time I got the permit to procure, he was leaving the country, the P2P expires next month so it has basically torpedoed our plans. FUCK having to deal with crap like that for every gun I sell or take possession of. That is the number one reason I am against universal registration. All good if you buy a rifle once a year...or a decade.

I hate to be the wank that points it out, but where are all the AR's and AK's in this? The way they bang on about them being assault weapons and desirable for undesirables, you would think he would be palming those off in mass.

Originally Posted by Beavis

I hate to be the wank that points it out, but where are all the AR's and AK's in this? The way they bang on about them being assault weapons and desirable for undesirables, you would think he would be palming those off in mass.

Wonder if it is because you can't just take a hacksaw to an AR or AK and cut it down to pistol length without turning them into an awkward single shot? Shortening any sort of gas system requires a bit more know how than hacking an old sxs, 303, or 10/22 off short.

Originally Posted by scaggly

Wonder if it is because you can't just take a hacksaw to an AR or AK and cut it down to pistol length without turning them into an awkward single shot? Shortening any sort of gas system requires a bit more know how than hacking an old sxs, 303, or 10/22 off short.

Possibly a combination of that + an AR is $2000+ and this dudes average gun price is like $675 ish

Turns out that's a load of unsubstantiated bullshit

I thought I'd try find out what this guy is looking at for his trouble, the firearms stuff is pretty petty compared to Class A drug dealing. Supplying a firearm to an unlicensed person carries a smack on the wrist as per the Police Firearms Manual 2002: 1.12 Every person commits an offence who sells or supplies a firearm (other than a pistol, MSSA, or restricted weapon) to any person who is not the holder of a Firearms Licence or Dealers Licence. Section 43, Arms Act 1983. Penalty: 3 months - $1000 or both. (Will that be 3 months per unit sold? I would be very surprised...)

Supplying meth will be the real clincher here:

Some drug offences and maximum penalties

In the following list, 'indictment' refers to a conviction dealt with in a Crown Court (with a jury); 'summarily' refers to a conviction in a Magistrates Court.

Possession

Class A 6 months imprisonment and/or $1,000 fine
Class B 3 months imprisonment and/or $500 fine
Class C 3 months imprisonment and/or $500 fine
Supply or manufacture

Class A Life imprisonment
Class B 14 years imprisonment
Class C Indictment – 8 years imprisonment. Summarily – 1 year jail and/or $1,000 fine

I wonder if it will be treated like this one: 'Methamphetamine queen' appeals 20-year sentence - National - NZ Herald News I am interested to see how the courts deal with this guy.

44Selling or supplying pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon to person who does not hold permit to import or to procure
(1)Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to both who sells or supplies a pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon to any person other than a person who is authorised—
(a)by a permit issued for the purposes of section 16(1) to bring or cause to be brought or sent into New Zealand that pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon; or
(b)by a permit issued under section 35 to procure that pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon.

section 44

Would have thought "69" would have rung bells

It doesn't really matter if they have a desire to be rehabilitated, the focus for spending should 100% be on finding out what is actually effective at reducing crime, and doing that.

Hmmm I disagree. What if crappier prison conditions resulted in a reduction in crime?

Originally Posted by square1

Hmmm I disagree. What if crappier prison conditions resulted in a reduction in crime?

Does it? If so, awesome, do it


but research it first. And I would lay money that it doesn't.


e:5 seconds google finds an abstract for a paper that claims to have found that deaths in prison (as an indicator of prison conditions) is negatively correlated with the crime rate, so yeah, make prisons shitter if you want more crime