Thread: Tikka t1X - Beretta NZ sales policy

Originally Posted by Tentman

Chris I have to say that I find that an odd comment - how much does it cost to keep an account open? I communicate with my customers fairly regularly, it costs very little and often generates return business. I do very little business with some of my wholesaler suppliers but I have never had one say that I should close my account.

Can you please mention to Niccolo that I haven't heard from him, he promised to get back to me.

If a customer openly does not want to support Beretta products, why should Beretta be on call to support them at the drop of a hat?
As you have seen, an account with Beretta is a privilege not a right. Its based on a mutual partnership where both parties support each other. Not a one way thing.
What the guy said is that the shop does not want to sell or support Beretta products even though they can - not that they don't buy very much due to slow turn over or whatever. There is a substantial difference.

Remember guys that i am a member of public that on the odd occasion goes into this shop I know he doesn’t stock brettea stuff
But the fact that that was his choice was passed on by others not him
So we could be getting the wrong end of the stick

Originally Posted by ChrisW

If a customer openly does not want to support Beretta products, why should Beretta be on call to support them at the drop of a hat?
As you have seen, an account with Beretta is a privilege not a right. Its based on a mutual partnership where both parties support each other. Not a one way thing.
What the guy said is that the shop does not want to sell or support Beretta products even though they can - not that they don't buy very much due to slow turn over or whatever. There is a substantial difference.

Ignore tentman, he’s clearly retarded. Also suffering from delusional levels of self importance. I’m sure the GM has more important things to be doing than discussing strategic directives and/or policy to a nobody from nowhere that by his on admission isnt even a customer.

Sounds like we'd be well met then Proudkiwi

In order for a retailer to maintain a 'mutual partnership' with Beretta, is there a sales threshold which has to be met (I.e X % of total stock sold has to be a beretta product)?

Are there hidden incentives for retailers to push Beretta products onto customers (E.g trips overseas to expos etc).

What drives Beretta as a company? Is it customer service/satisfaction? Is it R&D and technological progression (an insatiable desire to provide increasingly better products which serve the customers' needs/desires? Those are very much rhetorical questions.

I'll take a wild guess as to why Sakos and Tikkas don't make ideal candidates for an independent retailers' inventory. Imagine this - you walk into an independent gun store. There is a diverse range of firearms on display because the owner is under no obligations to pledge total allegiance to one particular brand over another. After all, being independent should not be about selling 'brands', but selling 'rifles', and finding something which will fit the unique, individual customer well, and satisfy them time and time again.

So a customer walks through the door and says "sir/madam, how are you?" And the independent retailer says "Good thanks, how are you?! What a lovely day it is today. How may I assist you?" (Being independent, it's all about building relationships with your customers as opposed to pouring all your resources into your relationship with the 'brand' (something which makes leaving those larger chain stores feel like you've just been robbed (they seem to only be interested in taking your money and meeting sales targets).

The customer asks "I'm after a quality rifle. Something I can be proud of owning. Something solid and dependable which won't cost the earth". The retailers walls aren't swamped with Beretta products (they only make up a small percentage), and so the retailer says "Well, take a look around. I've got a wide range of rifles on display (as opposed to "do you want to spend little? Get a Tikka! Want to spend a lot? Get a Sako)...why don't you hold a few and check if you like the feel/fit?"

And that's where things get tricky. Because most Beretta products aren't particularly value for money They aren't made with great attention to detail. They aren't made right the first time and kept at that - they pump out new models by the day. And because of Berettas infatuation with sales over all else, their relationship with the retailer/customer suffers. Parts become hard to aquire. Warranty claims become difficult to resolve in a timely manner - all of which make it difficult for customers who may own older products. Rifles should not have to go obsolete in a matter of 'years'...but that's the reality when you've got new products being pumped out at lightening speed, but a deteriorating customer service ethos.

Compounding all of this, is the zombie attitude especially prevalent in NZ, whereby you're a dick if you try to be different/stand out from the crowd. "You're not buying a Tikka?! But everyone owns a Tikka. All the boyz are Tikka sluts!!! Why aren't you keen on being one?!"

I bet Beretta loves that.

All said and done, however...I'm actually a big fan of Beretta. Mmmm. I dream about you every night, baby. Beretta I love you. You're so caring and generous...

Recent berretta NZ experience - needed two tiny front sight screws, “no, sorry sir, please go to your nearest dealer and buy a whole new front site assembly for an undisclosed, but not doubt eye watering sum”. Brownells got my $$ funnily enough.

Savage on the other hand for other smalll bits - “of course, we’ll flick them out for a few bucks; oops, sorry sent the wrong bits, here’s two of the right one and some additional associated bits just in case you need them as well”.

Not a great look when a rifle that cost thousands has worse customer support than one that cost hundreds...

Frodo, There is a whole lot of assumptions going on there.
Do the likes of GC and H&F not sell other brands of guns? Yes they do. You want a Remington or a Savage? They will both sell you one of those if that's what you want.
Im not aware of any shop that only sells Beretta products, which pretty much turns your whole post upside down on its head. In regards to warranty, I can tell you that items that come in for warranty are dealt with the very quickly. There is no backlog of warranty work. Depending on the issue it can take a couple days as often the item needs to be taken out and test fired to either attempt to replicate an issue before any work to "fix" an issue can be started, or confirm the issue is resolved.

7x64 - Beretta does not deal directly with the public hence being directed to a dealer. Sounds like you didn't follow through and contact a dealer, and instead chose to sort the problem yourself - which is cool if that's what you want to do. This is the same as a car part or other item that only comes as a part of an "assembly". Often in life you need to purchase an "assembly" when you only need a specific part from it, unless you go aftermarket. Happens all the time. Car parts for example.

Originally Posted by ChrisW

7x64 - Beretta does not deal directly with the public hence being directed to a dealer. Sounds like you didn't follow through and contact a dealer, and instead chose to sort the problem yourself - which is cool if that's what you want to do. This is the same as a car part or other item that only comes as a part of an "assembly". Often in life you need to purchase an "assembly" when you only need a specific part from it. Happens all the time. Car parts for example. We need to purchase an "assembly" ourselves.

Yup, totally understand that. All I’m saying is this isn’t true for all local agents, which as an end user represents different levels of support at a practical level. Saying “this is how we do it” is fair enough, but you can’t blame the customer for then perceiving they are receiving better support elsewhere, which ultimately may make up part of their purchasing decision.

Originally Posted by 7x64

Yup, totally understand that. All I’m saying is this isn’t true for all local agents, which as an end user represents different levels of support at a practical level. Saying “this is how we do it” is fair enough, but you can’t blame the customer for then perceiving they are receiving better support elsewhere, which ultimately may make up part of their purchasing decision.

Fair call. I assume your call or email was answered promptly though - even if it was not what you wanted to hear?
Unfortunately we have no facilities to deal with the end user on a purchasing basis. We will however do our best to provide a good answer and give them what info they need - part numbers, availability, who in their area can order it for you etc

Hi Chris.

I have dealt with Beretta before. And yes, it was resolved (only after I kicked up a fuss). It took 5 months for the rifle to be fixed. Are you assuming that people's bitter experiences are skewed/unjustified?

I never said anything about a store which ONLY sells Beretta products, but I think it would be a fair statement that they make up the bulk of the stock belonging to some of the larger chain stores. Which is understandable - supply vs demand. My question is - what's stopping a smaller retailer maintaining an account, if they only stock a few of your rifles at a time? Is there a requirement for dealers to sell X number of rifles and invest X amount of time in endorsing the Beretta brand? And if so, what incentive(s) does Beretta offer dealers to do so?

Unfortunately impressions/assumptions are everything if you expect return customers.

I think there is two sides to every story.

Its not about turn over, stock held on the shelf or endorsing any one brand.
Its about what representation is already in the area - and the fact you don't want your own products competing against themselves and starting a price war.

For example it could be detrimental if a smaller shop (who can operate on slimmer margins) was given an account in an area that was already well represented -then proceeded to simply undercut the larger stores in the area who require a higher margin to stay afloat.
It would drive the price and profile of our own products down, due to our own products competing against themselves - and its all a downward spiral from there.

Originally Posted by ChrisW

I think there is two sides to every story.

Its not about turn over, stock held on the shelf or endorsing any one brand.
Its about what representation is already in the area - and the fact you don't want your own products competing against themselves and starting a price war.

For example it could be detrimental if a smaller shop (who can operate on slimmer margins) was given an account in an area that was already well represented -then proceeded to simply undercut the larger stores in the area who require a higher margin to stay afloat.
It would drive the price and profile of our own products down, due to our own products competing against themselves - and its all a downward spiral from there.

True.

My 2 pence worth Large chain stores and we are not just talking gun shops exploit their size and wide coverage in the market where they can with suppliers by amongst other things getting goods on consignment, or 120 day terms often with right of return as well. They will also comitt there membership to a certain no of units in return for more advantageous terms, extra free stock, or both, buy 10 get one free. Prime store space is also "auctioned" to suppliers.
In return the supplier generally gets central billing no worry of individual stores defaulting and reduced admin costs.
Ive left out staff incentives, promotions and a whole heap of other things that make up the push sell business model that firms feel they need to follow in order to succeed now a days

Originally Posted by berg243

this is why a lot of people started importing things from overseas as large shops have a near monopoly and charge what they want not what was a fair margin.if I really wanted a new t1x it would be cheaper for me to get it in the usa and import it looking at exchange rate and costs of importing just more hassle.if big shops need a monopoly to survive then they should look at their operating costs . as you would have a wholesale price you would not miss out and the consumer might get a fairer deal with a bit of competition.

I agree, but I don't think there is a monopoly in this case. There are many brands of firearms to choose from and many shops - both chains and independents that supply them.
These are our brands, that are just a few of many in the market and many companies supply them who all compete against each other. Its a balancing act.

A company, Beretta, Tikka, Sako, BMW, Ferrari - whatever - they all need to control the perception of their brands in the market. And part of that is not allowing the brand to go to the lowest common denominator to get into a slogging match to drive the brand profile down. Once price goes down, it never goes up again.

The firearms industry is a funny one. Lots of bureaucracy, lots of hidden costs, lots of paperwork, approvals and permits. And its all very slow moving.

Just wanted to add - when we go to market we offer the same price to everyone, often with a price break based on qty X units. For example the T1X - the same communication with cost / price break went out to everyone. Both independents and chains. Obviously larger stores would be more able to meet the price brakes, but being a large chain offers certain competitive advantages just as being small offers a couple as well. eg able to operate with reduced margin, so a small shop could probably make the same profit if they only bought qty 1 vs the larger store who had to buy 5 to cut their costs to make the same profit due to overheads. Note I said profit not margin.

Originally Posted by ChrisW

Its not about turn over, stock held on the shelf or endorsing any one brand.
Its about what representation is already in the area - and the fact you don't want your own products competing against themselves and starting a price war.

For example it could be detrimental if a smaller shop (who can operate on slimmer margins) was given an account in an area that was already well represented -then proceeded to simply undercut the larger stores in the area who require a higher margin to stay afloat.

And yet the bigger shops tell us they are giving us better deals by having supply arrangements and buying bulk etc...