Thread: Economics of old trucks vs new trucks

How many k's a year flyblown?

Originally Posted by mimms2

Are you taking the piss??

After the nuclear apocalypse there will be cockroaches, and Safari/patrols.

The GQ series (pre-96) generally regarded as more resilient (less electric)
Silver-top engines have stronger internals than blacktops, but you'll struggle to kill either. They did factory blacktop turbos, and some mudsluts have wound them up to 27 psi. Rooster tailing all four on difflock and 37" tyres...
They just piss excellence.

The GU series are more "comfortable", more comparable to the now-SUVs, but equally capable, though I think they went lighter again on the internals.

A LSD on the back at minimum (I don't know why they ever fitted open diffs)

Say you find a young one at 300k...
If it hasn't had bushes underneath that'll be about $600
If it's launched boats or otherwise neglected the arse will rust out. If it isn't black, the gutters will rust out.
If it's been overloaded towing then the rear suspension towers can "fold in" towards each other and crack the welds/bend the chassis.

I would recommend them all day.

you forgot "twinkies" they will survive the nuclear apocalypse too

Originally Posted by stevodog

How many k's a year flyblown?

I did on average 40-45,000km p.a. I got the first 120series Prado with 80,000km on it and gave it back to the fleet manager with 255,000km. A typical 4 week holiday for us, from WA to Tas or the Vic High Country, was a 10,000km trip all up. I tried to buy that vehicle, but was turned down (the couldn’t allow the precedent unfortunately). It was a manual.

The second Prado was a 150series with the same engine, I only had it for 2 years from new, we did 39,000km in the first year, then my job changed and I gave it back when I left with 55,000km. The second one was an auto box.

Neither vehicle gave me a hint of trouble. None whatsoever. We went into some hell and gone places, especially in the first one.

We have a Highlander here that I bought for the wife new in Perth in 2009, the transverse version of the same engine (2GR-FE). It has done 120,000km, with two years on axle stands in storage, and in the entire time we have had it, the only non-consumable component I have had to change outside of the normal service schedule was the alarm sensor on the bonnet catch. I will run that vehicle until it stops, probably in about 20 years time!

The railway company vehicles, which I got to know reasonably well because the railway traversed our exploration tenements and we shared a camp, did on average half a million clicks in 3-4 years. Driving all day, every day, from camp to camp, keeping the lines clear, checking the signals, crossings, sidings, etc. Typical day in summer was 600-700km, sunrise to sunset, all rough as tracks. And they didn’t drive ‘em like yer grandma! Delivered as a bog standard Prado GRJ120R, they’d fit the normal MineSpec safety pack (internal roll bar, big roo bar, lights, UHF, external engine kill switch, cargo barrier, etc), snorkel, LT tyres, then off it went. Suspension was swapped out routinely every 60-70,000km. The Aussie models come with a 180L fuel tank standard, with the spare tyre on the back door.

The reason they ran petrols was (a) engine reliability on camp fuel, and the hard lessons learned with the early common rail diesel injectors and holed pistons; (b) no need for a fire suppression system (because no turbo), (c) proven bulletproof V6 block and heads, no history of running hot in summer temps, ease of maintenance. Minor service every 2 weeks, i.e. end of each swing, major service every 20,000km or so.

The railway guys trusted these vehicles and were very attached to them.

My neighbour runs an early Gen 7 Hilux with the same 4.0L engine (GGN26R model) that is probably a 2005 or 06, I go in that truck regularly, it is well over 400,000km and smooth as silk, a very very reliable vehicle.

I just looked, there’s one in TradeMe now so they are around.

The irony is that when I bought mine in 2014, I bought the diesel! Petrol was no longer available. New injectors on warranty at 42,000km due to bad outback fuel, that’s with a pre-filter as well as the factory filter... I still wish I had been able to buy a petrol for long term peace of mind.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

If you’re going to buy an old truck, buy a petrol.

Hands down the best option is a 1GR-FE V6 4.0 engined Prado, or even better for NZ use, the rare but findable Hilux with the same engine.

The old school high compression turbo diesels with 400,000km plus the extra couple of hundred thousand you don’t know about? Fuck that.

If like me you’ve lived a while in Aus and used the 1GR in a variety of vehicles, and have access to the fleet data for a hundred or so more, you’ll know why I’m talking it up. One of the better examples of their ruggedness were the railway company vehicles - Prados mostly - used to check the lines day in day out in QLD, NT, WA. They didn’t buy the diesel variant of these vehicles for a reason. If I told you the mileage these vehicles wracked up in three years you wouldn’t believe me. And only about 5% of those kilometres were on the black top, the rest rough as railway tracks.

Feel free to throw stones, but I’m right!

They're an awesome motor, so reliable and cheap to service. If you're only doing a few thousand kms a year I'd have one a hilux with one of these motors hands down over a diesel variant

Thanks, good to know

The other petrol engine that should get a mention here is the Toyota 3RZ-FE, 2.7L 4cyl. I have not owned one of these, but there’s a couple in Tacomas stateside with my cuzzies, and they are like crazy high mileage. Those are conventional 2WD pickups, delivery vehicles. You can get this engine in the Gen 6 Hilux 4WD here, it is often overlooked by kiwis and that’s a mistake. There are of course thousands of super-high mileage Hiaces with this engine.

Well i just bought a 93 isuzui mu swb. 285k on the clock. 2.8l turbo diesel. Spotlights, running boards, nudge bar, still 5 good tyres. Last year had 3k spent on it. new Cambelt,
bushalls all done , couple of other things. Just before i bought it had a full service, fluid, oil filter, top oil etc. new drive belts, 4850ruc already paid and 12 months rego. Brand new wof.
Runs sweet, everything works . Not too flash to worry about denting it or going thru scrub. Manual, heaps of power, good radio
All for ....3k! not complaining

The 3.4 petrol v6 in the prado 100 series and early Hiluxes that preceeded the 4.0 is also a good high mileage unit. I run a 120 prado with the 3.0 L D4D, first generation with no DPF etc. Over 320 00kms, has been very good. Replaced the injectors and shocks every 120 - 150 k but shocks, springs and injectors are consumables. Bushes need replacing around 300 000K as did front drive shafts. 1500 - 2000 per year on services and on going maintence. Auto box, has been flawless. The first 3-4 years of age is when values take the big depreciation hit, you should be discounting 30% off new price and dont pay overs or anywhere near full price for extras, bars, winches racks etc.

For the modern Diesel engine fuel quality is everything.
I own 7 Hilux’s of varying ages for my business vehicles and they average somewhere between 45K - 50k a year .
Over the last 15 years apart from normal servicing and tyres ( don’t get me started on tyres) my biggest costs have been clutch/transmission and one blown motor (315K on the clock) .
The transmission issues have been eliminated by changing over the fleet to automatic from manual ( clutches every 150K and syncro problems cost me thousands over the years ) .
The blown motor was purely bad fuel and now all utes run a secondary fuel filter which is an expense , but nothing like a new motor ( both cost or replacement and downtime)

Originally Posted by Dicko

The 3.4 petrol v6 in the prado 100 series and early Hiluxes that preceeded the 4.0 is also a good high mileage unit. I run a 120 prado with the 3.0 L D4D, first generation with no DPF etc. Over 320 00kms, has been very good. Replaced the injectors and shocks every 120 - 150 k but shocks, springs and injectors are consumables. Bushes need replacing around 300 000K as did front drive shafts. 1500 - 2000 per year on services and on going maintence. Auto box, has been flawless. The first 3-4 years of age is when values take the big depreciation hit, you should be discounting 30% off new price and dont pay overs or anywhere near full price for extras, bars, winches racks etc.

You must have a dud, everyone I've spoken to on the internet has said nothing will ever wear out on a Toyota other than tyres.
Maybe that's the difference between the Prado and full LC.

I do like that these threads eventually turn into; Nissan/Toyota X with TD-KZ4x from 1978-1980 is the only vehicle that will last and everything else has some major design flaw that causes the vehicle to spontaneously combust after 300,000kms.

In reality a lot of vehicles will do stupid high miles and it's only from a decade of owners finding the common faults and things too look out for that they continue last.
IMO the most important thing with an older vehicle is rust, if you have rust forming in undesirable places then you are in for serious trouble.
Otherwise, short of a complete lemon if you have a mechanic that knows the vehicle well or you take not of the common pitfalls and do preventative maintenance you will likely be fine.

Even with Land Rovers the pinnacle of unreliability you get models like the Discovery 1 that when they first came out were breaking down every 15kms but after a few years of design updates and 10 years of private owners learning things the hard way.
You can read for hours online how the R380 gearbox and 300tdi is a piece of shit compared to the LT77 and 200tdi, yet 25 years on there are still plenty of vehicles on the road with stupid high mileage.

In my experience with Land Rovers has been that other peoples negligence or neglect is often what cost them big time, when they have been ignoring that rattle or clunk or warning message for too long and get surprised when they are stranded on the side of the road or hit with a massive repair bill.
When they don't adjust the electric park brake and ignore the warnings it throws up, or don't change the diff oil for 290,000kms, or ignore that horrendous clunk in the drive train is when things start getting expensive.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

The other petrol engine that should get a mention here is the Toyota 3RZ-FE, 2.7L 4cyl. I have not owned one of these, but there’s a couple in Tacomas stateside with my cuzzies, and they are like crazy high mileage. Those are conventional 2WD pickups, delivery vehicles. You can get this engine in the Gen 6 Hilux 4WD here, it is often overlooked by kiwis and that’s a mistake. There are of course thousands of super-high mileage Hiaces with this engine.

I have a '96 Surf with this. Bought off trademe 4 years ago. The guy selling it had it up for 3 months and no one had looked at it becuase it was petrol. Got it crazy cheap compared to comparable diesels.

Originally Posted by Beetroot

In my experience with Land Rovers has been that other peoples negligence or neglect is often what cost them big time, when they have been ignoring that rattle or clunk or warning message for too long and get surprised when they are stranded on the side of the road or hit with a massive repair bill.

I couldn’t agree with you more @Beetroot, I think a lot of the surprise comes down to the fact that the rattle or clunk tends to happen not long after they drive away from the Land Rover dealership. Maybe some of the new owners are lulled into a full sense of security and think that the car is supposed to make that noise!

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Did you find brakes failing at earlier intervals with the change to auto? We did with heavy towing, the auto is no where near as good for that. Also seems to be many times worse with TB-class trailers and the electric brakes, seems that the override type hydraulic couplings allow a bit of 'pad drag' when you are coasting and it helps take the load off the vehicle brakes. TB-class only kick in with the brake light activation and that seems to allow a situation where you counteract the brake delay with heavier applications...

We don’t tow much at all , your correct in saying that the autos aren’t the best for that . I know of a few guys that have had problems towing with autos of a variety of brands .
We do carry weight on the trays , depending on the job and task that can vary from 200kg - 700kg .
Also we don’t do a huge amount of hill work , it’s mainly flat land and a 50/50 mix of highway / dirt track .

Originally Posted by Flyblown

I couldn’t agree with you more @Beetroot, I think a lot of the surprise comes down to the fact that the rattle or clunk tends to happen not long after they drive away from the Land Rover dealership. Maybe some of the new owners are lulled into a full sense of security and think that the car is supposed to make that noise!

Attachment 144572

The key to land rover ownership is knowing which rattles and leaks are normal and what ones too look out for.....