Thread: 410 no toxic options

NIOA? were bringing them in, last season apparently a lot went to the Queenstown area.
You can get wads out of the usa and TSS from aliexpress. I have no .410 yet but one day, I like the smaller guages as they are less "noisey" among other things.
They are just pricey to shoot a lot even using lead options. 12Ga is considerably cheaper to shoot than 20.

An oz of TSS size 10 has approx 500 pellets and penetration properties of lead 6's I believe and size 9 TSS is equivalent to lead 5's
Really make the ,410 a viable hunting gun for upland and ducks if you are that way inclined.

Dirt cheap to reload...just need components. Have lead wads so fine with soft non toxic shot. Steel will be interesting to see how they wad it. A half Oz in 3" case might be feasible.

That comparison where #10 = lead #6 is interesting..... The Remington tungsten in #2 must just about be illegal as would carry more energy than a lead #BB. Or is the Tungsten different again to heavishot???

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

That comparison where #10 = lead #6 is interesting..... The Remington tungsten in #2 must just about be illegal as would carry more energy than a lead #BB. Or is the Tungsten different again to heavishot???

Tss is the heaviest of the lot at the moment.
the whole "no stand should/can be within 90m of another might need revisiting allowing for use of TSS
Guys in the US are clocking snow geese at stupid distances with .410's
Downside is TSS is expensive so .410 is perfect for it. Handloaders often load a little bt off steel shot in the top of their loads as it seems to help open up the pattern.
1/2oz of TSS 9's or 10's and a little bit of steel seems good medicine

18g/cc Tungsten Super Shot (TSS)

from Prairiewind Decoys

This 18 gram/cubic centimeter heavy weight Tungsten Super Shot (TSS) shot turns your sub guage gun into an extremely lethal weapon. It is perfect for the 410 Bore, 28ga, and 20 guage. You won't believe the ballistics. For example, a 3/8oz load of #9's in a 410 2 1/2" shell gives you 135 pellets.(That is more pellets than many 12ga loads) These pellets carry more energy than Lead #4's at 1510 FPS with 23 grains of powder. This loads yeilds 1.25" of penetration into Ballistic gel at 88 yards!

Believe me, these pellets are "the stuff!" We have been cold cocking big 12 pound Canadas with our 410's at 70+ yards. These guns are light, fast, quiet, and have no recoil.

The 18 g/cc is almost pure tungsten. It is on of the heaviest metals in the world! For this reason, the US Military is building massive stock piles of the metal. Ballistically, it is far superior than lead.

The key to the superior performance of 18gram TSS shot is the density. At 18g/cc (about 60% denser than lead), the penetration energy is so high that it enables one to go down significantly in pellet size, to greatly increase the pellet count and pattern density, while simultaneously increasing the penetration depth of the pellets into the target. This enables one to greatly increase the performance of a typical big bore shotgun, or to go down in bore size or payload without giving up performance - or both.

As for comparing 18g/cc tungsten pellets vs lead (11g/cc), a TSS 18g/cc pellet will have about the same penetration energy as a lead pellet 5 sizes smaller! So #9 shot in 18g/cc Tungsten equates to #4 in lead(or about a #2 in steel).

Here is a weight comparison chart of the most common shotgun pellets on the market today.

Steel Shot - 7.86 grams per cubic centimeter (gms/cc)
Bismuth - 9.6 gms/cc
Hevi-X - 9.7 gms/cc
Lead - 11.10 gms/cc
Hevi-Shot - 12 gms/cc
Tungsten Super Shot - 18g/cc


This shot is lethal on turkeys, ducks, geese, and just about any other game birds.

Here's the distance each type pellet will give you 1.25" of ballistics gel penetration, as well as showing the number of pellets per ounce. When you think about the penetration per pellet along with the number of pellets available to penetrate the target, these numbers will illustrate why density makes such a huge difference in a shotshell's performance on fowl.

8 g/cc Steel #2 (123/oz) – 45.7 yds
11 g/cc Nickel Plated lead #5 (174/oz) – 60.4 yds
12 g/cc Hevi-13 #6 (208/oz) – 60.4 yds
15 g/cc Fed HWT #7 (220/oz) – 81 yds
18 g/cc TSS #8 1/2 (300/oz) – 84.5 yds

In addition to penetration energy and pellet count, there is a 3rd factor that doesn't show up in the math - patterning characteristics. In a nutshell, the denser and harder the shot material, the better the pellets will hold together in a pattern. In real life scenarios, on real birds, the 18g TSS will actually do better vs lead, because of hardness. It will break bones better, or any other hard material, because of it's hardness and lack of flattening out when it comes into contact with any surface.

This 18g/cc shot is available in #1's thru #10 shot.

USFWS approved non-toxic

For those days when every shot counts, the 18 gram/cc Tungsten is worth its weight in gold. Shooting a 410, 28ga , or 20ga is far more enjoyable and effective with TSS.

Yeah that TSS stuff seems the buzz but dearer than poison coated uranium.
I think it's absolute bollocks to go the non toxic way with 410.
Absolutely dumb especially considering there is bugger all about to replace it.
Lead 410 is dear enough as it let alone more expensive non toxic stuff.
Ah well
Rant over

There is one major flaw in logic of above speil....if shot is denser/ heavier yes going down in shot size makes perfect sense BUT you cannot increase pellet count/ density of pattern past total overall payload ..eg it will still need to be a 1/2 or 3/4 Oz load for same powder charge etc etc. the top up with steel is fine with a steel was...but as said above the room left for payload will be drastically reduced with thicker was walls. If anyone imports some tss I will happily buy some off them. Hell I would buy loaded 12 ga shells and strip them to get it. @csmiffy that may well be the case but we already saw a certain not to be named retailer selling .410s in last two seasons to skip around law..nothing to do with young folks...just greed again.

I hear you. But still bugger all people would sacrifice the performance of a 410 with lead over a steel 12 guage load.
I really like the little 870 but it's not that much fun and steel 12 is still cheaper than lead 410.
I won't pay 50 bucks a packet for the bestest 12g non toxic so even more for 410 is a toughy.
Back on track though the tungsten stuff in 410 is pretty potent. I believe it's a bit more powerful as well. I suspect a few cheap 410s might not handle them.
The write-up on the turkey models suggested they were beefed up a little.
Mind you the last couple of opening mornings I didn't shoot that many ducks.
If I limited myself to a handful of ducks over the weekend and have the appropriate rang and decors sorted I'd consider it but wouldn't want to be trying to limit out all the time and do lot of it over a season.
Just remember though that even though the weight thing is a thing the smaller pellets with the tungsten evens it out.
It just seems to work

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

There is one major flaw in logic of above speil....if shot is denser/ heavier yes going down in shot size makes perfect sense BUT you cannot increase pellet count/ density of pattern past total overall payload ..eg it will still need to be a 1/2 or 3/4 Oz load for same powder charge etc etc. the top up with steel is fine with a steel was...but as said above the room left for payload will be drastically reduced with thicker was walls. If anyone imports some tss I will happily buy some off them. Hell I would buy loaded 12 ga shells and strip them to get it. @csmiffy that may well be the case but we already saw a certain not to be named retailer selling .410s in last two seasons to skip around law..nothing to do with young folks...just greed again.

Well I am going to buy some and have some wads coming very slow freight for 28 and .410, if usps ever deliver them then you can have a a few oz's to try but its too pricy to give a lot away.

That would be awesome thankyou.does it require different wads to lead??

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

That would be awesome thankyou.does it require different wads to lead??

Oh yes, yes it does TSS will do bad things to a barrel like steel the wads completely enclose the payload until it has "left the building"