Thread: HDPA does indeed lie about firearms

Originally Posted by Tahr

It's interesting and informative to go into the Police Association web site for a browse. There is a story about Oconnors back ground which is interesting and nothing like the attempts that have been made to portray it on here.

Have a look for a broader perspective.

Got a link to that story? I already went to their website to learn about his background and all I found was that he has been a cop for 37 years.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Any specifically tasked to work at international airports.

Extremely relevant to the discussion, thank you Ryan.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Got a link to that story? I already went to their website to learn about his background and all I found was that he has been a cop for 37 years.

I had a look too, maybe hes talking about a story in here
Police News September 2016 | Police Association

Originally Posted by Chilli_Dog

There is obviously some (probably reasonably high up) in the Police that do agree with Greg,

There is suddenly a big push for a register, while it would appear that the Police have been building one for some time with the vetting officers and now mail order forms.
Greg has come out wanting 50cals to become a restricted weapon because they will go through a vest and now restrictions are being put on import permits.

Im sure there are other coincidences as well.

which is retarded, military issue body armour will only stop up to 7.62x39. Lots of stuff goes through it. Oconner says what suits suits him without a logical train of thought sometimes. .

Originally Posted by res

To be fair, a fal like what most forum members have would make no difference to how well a cop acts with a gun.the difference in use and mindset is just to large, sure it's not the same as the army either.
For both the police and military proper training is needed-if the tick I. There training box is called a license does it really change anything?

If joe blow like you and I could Cary in public for protection then there would be a case for the licance story be the same

Problem is that govt budgets don't seem to have room to fund the training-lets not forget that it's not just the ammo it's the extra bodies to cover the down time caused by proper training. Unless the $ is there I'm anti arming the police, if the $ was there I'm open to it as I know I would want it if I was doing the job and I struggle with the idea of expecting someone to do something on my behalf with less tools/training than I feel I would want to to the task.

exactly this. Im anti full time arming of the police because they dont have the required level of training. It looks like they wont have the budget to carry out that training either, train the trainers. ammo, wear on firearms/maintenance, down time of officers while doing that training.

shooting is a perishable skill, hence why the military combat trades are constantly having weapons with them on exercise, be it tactical or not. Currently an NZ pistol license holder, doing the mandatory 12 shoots a year minimum, is more highly trained than an average officer.

Originally Posted by systolic

How many cops in NZ have had their guns taken off them now?

(Not counting that guy at Aramoana who was already dead when his pistol was taken.)

Who got shot when the situation "could have been de-escalated without violence"?

Feilding golf course? Waitara?

Originally Posted by res

To be fair, a fal like what most forum members have would make no difference to how well a cop acts with a gun.the difference in use and mindset is just to large, sure it's not the same as the army either.
For both the police and military proper training is needed-if the tick I. There training box is called a license does it really change anything?

If joe blow like you and I could Cary in public for protection then there would be a case for the licance story be the same

Problem is that govt budgets don't seem to have room to fund the training-lets not forget that it's not just the ammo it's the extra bodies to cover the down time caused by proper training. Unless the $ is there I'm anti arming the police, if the $ was there I'm open to it as I know I would want it if I was doing the job and I struggle with the idea of expecting someone to do something on my behalf with less tools/training than I feel I would want to to the task.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

exactly this. Im anti full time arming of the police because they dont have the required level of training. It looks like they wont have the budget to carry out that training either, train the trainers. ammo, wear on firearms/maintenance, down time of officers while doing that training.

shooting is a perishable skill, hence why the military combat trades are constantly having weapons with them on exercise, be it tactical or not. Currently an NZ pistol license holder, doing the mandatory 12 shoots a year minimum, is more highly trained than an average officer.

We used to have an annual competition between the AOS, Army and the local pistol club, always finished Club first, the AOS and Army fighting it out the rest, was good because the Army brought boxes of ammo and nice things to shoot, both semi and auto, AOS brought some hot 357 and revolvers to bowl it down the range, guess that doesnt happen anymore

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Currently an NZ pistol license holder, doing the mandatory 12 shoots a year minimum, is more highly trained than an average officer.

Attendance does not make for skill.

Otherwise no-one would ever get DQ'd in a comp, being so highly skilled with their firearm and all

Originally Posted by Kscott

Attendance does not make for skill.

Otherwise no-one would ever get DQ'd in a comp, being so highly skilled with their firearm and all

Exactly. Didn't some top pistol shooter shoot themselves in the leg recently?

One of the clubs around Auckland or Northland?

Originally Posted by systolic

Exactly. Didn't some top pistol shooter shoot themselves in the leg recently?

One of the clubs around Auckland or Northland?

You not up to continuing the discussion?

Originally Posted by Chilli_Dog

I had a look too, maybe hes talking about a story in here
Police News September 2016 | Police Association

Unless I missed something it does confirm that he's been in the police force since he was a teenager without doing anything else (unless you count a couple of holidays), so I'm not sure what Tahr was suggesting was dubious or non-factual about me asking if that was the case before.

Originally Posted by Jexla

How many cops have had a gun holstered on them for every job they attend?
How many times have they had a scuffle with someone whilst they had a gun holstered?

All you're saying is that the current system works.



I think you will find that your buddy O'Connor said this, so why are you asking me?
Remember he speaks on behalf of all the police officers you have talked about in your post, they voted for him.

The current system works?! So cops getting shot and shot at and having their cars stolen is acceptable?! What a stupid thing to say, easily said from an armchair though.

I personally know the cops that were shot at in Whangarei, they don't agree that they were in an acceptable situation, neither do their partners and children.

I've also spent entire shifts armed and have been in scuffles whilst wearing a firearm.

I agree with you Savage, nobody should be harmed doing their job, I don't think carrying pissy pistols is the answer, as I don't believe having a MSSA rifle is the right choice for an officer, I'd be issuing shotguns, that's just my opinion. But this PC world has shackled the police to a point where they cannot do their job, before arming, give you back some Mana, scum is scum and should be treated as such,
Start there and stop the pussy footing, back up with judges and laws with a back bone and it may just improve all round. I take my hat off to you, I don't know how you can control yourself.

Originally Posted by Maca49

I agree with you Savage, nobody should be harmed doing their job, I don't think carrying pissy pistols is the answer, as I don't believe having a MSSA rifle is the right choice for an officer, I'd be issuing shotguns, that's just my opinion. But this PC world has shackled the police to a point where they cannot do their job, before arming, give you back some Mana, scum is scum and should be treated as such,
Start there and stop the pussy footing, back up with judges and laws with a back bone and it may just improve all round. I take my hat off to you, I don't know how you can control yourself.

Shotguns? For cops? In this country?

Are you on drugs?