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Thread: NZ Police has chilling problem: they're Killing, More and More

  1. #16
    Member Pengy's Avatar
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    How many can say that they rejoice in taking an animals life, even that of a nasty boar or a biting dog ?

    Very few I would wager. Taking a human life, even a scumbag in the line of duty, is not something that anyone would just take in their stride.
    If they did, then maybe they are part of the problem.
    Forgotmaboltagain

  2. #17
    Member sneeze's Avatar
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    their recruitment video would cheer them up. Its good.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9psILoYmCc
    I came into this world with nothing and I still have most of it left.

  3. #18
    Caretaker jakewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengy View Post
    How many can say that they rejoice in taking an animals life, even that of a nasty boar or a biting dog ?

    Very few I would wager. Taking a human life, even a scumbag in the line of duty, is not something that anyone would just take in their stride.
    If they did, then maybe they are part of the problem.
    That is interesting Pengy.
    I can honestly say that as I get older it is the shot, rather than the death that is the more satisfactory
    eg 800m on plate
    stingray, mikee, Pengy and 5 others like this.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  4. #19
    Member mikee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakewire View Post
    That is interesting Pengy.
    I can honestly say that as I get older it is the shot, rather than the death that is the more satisfactory
    eg 800m on plate
    I find the same thing now. I hunt for the freezer and shoot plates / targets at distance for fun and the challenge of it. I get a bigger kick out of watching deersies thru the binos than tipping as many over as I can

  5. #20
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    I shot two deer this week for the meat. I've no concern over the kill as long as it's fast.
    Police shooting of humans should always be the choice of their life or the protection of someone else's life over the the other? I believe no policeman should die doing their job, they don't get paid enough.
    I also think police need far more trading in their specific rolls.
    The armed defenders system is a good one, but taking a human life must change your life and be very hard to live with,
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  6. #21
    Member Paddy79's Avatar
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    and here I am getting more fun and satisfaction at outsmarting and stalking a 12pointer than shooting at apiece of metal hanging in the air. I must be one of those sicko hunters eh?
    for the record I do shoot at steel and paper, I just don't find it to be as rewarding.
    Dam right im Pro Guns, Look at History

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst View Post
    I reckon we're just breeding more and more fuckwits that put themselves in situations where they end up getting shot
    I am kind of inclined to tentatively agree with you.

    At the very least there's more of a gangster rap fuck the police amongst certain demographics than what my parents had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nibblet View Post
    And a couple more suicide by police.
    There's a lot less respect, fear and compliance with police these days which might put them in more situations where they aren't left with many options.

    Also people need to not make this about the firearms vs the police crap and vilifying the foot soldiers. It's the ones at the top of the tree after your firearms, not so much the ones just trying to up hold the law.

    Be curious to know what the figures are for the number of police in the UK that show up to a call out vs NZ, I'm betting there's a lot more with a lot more in close proximity to back up as well over there. Making a sow of force and the ability to overcome without resorting to shooting a lot more likely
    My uncle wrote the legal guidelines after Aramoana about when a cop is allowed to kill or not and I was talking to him about it yesterday. He said that the cops I'm general have very poor firearms training and experience. And even after all these years they are not so good at de escalating without resorting to arms.

    But then he also said that he wouldn't be around multiple times if he wasn't carrying a pistol at all times.

    So I think it's a mix of if all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail and poor training results in what we have.

    We also have the special tactics group which is our anti terrorism force who have a very lax rules of engagement. Essentially when they're mobilized they're mobilized to kill someone as quickly as possible.
    Steve123, Cordite and outlander like this.

  8. #23
    Member Savage1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russian 22. View Post
    I am kind of inclined to tentatively agree with you.

    At the very least there's more of a gangster rap fuck the police amongst certain demographics than what my parents had.



    My uncle wrote the legal guidelines after Aramoana about when a cop is allowed to kill or not and I was talking to him about it yesterday. He said that the cops I'm general have very poor firearms training and experience. And even after all these years they are not so good at de escalating without resorting to arms.

    But then he also said that he wouldn't be around multiple times if he wasn't carrying a pistol at all times.

    So I think it's a mix of if all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail and poor training results in what we have.

    We also have the special tactics group which is our anti terrorism force who have a very lax rules of engagement. Essentially when they're mobilized they're mobilized to kill someone as quickly as possible.
    Sorry but your uncle is out of touch, I'm guessing he isn't ever out on the frontline or assessing recent cases by speaking to the people involved in the incident. I can tell you through my experience that NZ cops pulling guns on offenders is actually quite rare.

    In my experience and knowledge, NZ Police are exceptionally good at using less than lethal options whenever appropriate and deescalating situations, like Scahill said, on average Police get shot at by offenders twice as often as Police shoot at offenders. You'd be surprised at just how rarely TASERs and Batons get used.

    Your idea of the deployment and use of the STG is way off the mark. They are governed by the same laws as every other Police Officer so their rules of engagement are exactly the same.
    6x47, 300CALMAN, Smartie and 2 others like this.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Henry View Post
    Interesting observation in the depths of the article, making firearms more available makes police more likely to use them rather than other methods of defusing a situation, and the head of the pol assn wants them to be an everyday carry?
    That wasn't an observation, it's an opinion, and in my experience that opinion is incorrect.
    6x47 and A330driver like this.

  10. #25
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    ...the very fact that New Zealand gangs,underworld characters,etc have come of age in the way they do business.The use of firearms in “their business” is a tool of choice and necessity.The Police have no other choice but to arm themselves for the most obvious reasons.One Just has to look at LA sagarso several years ago,the cops were outgunned by 2 individuals ,who managed to wreck havoc,before being taken out,borrowing firepower from a local gun store.I see Kiwi going the same way.Lawless individuals will see no reason not to.

    Great point there savage,and would agree.Funny thing,I have several mates here in the states who are cops,One a state trooper,a mate in Porirua who is a cop,hey all say the same thing,doesn’t matter how much training you get,you are never fully prepared to engage,until you engage.Hindsight , 20/20 is a great thing after the fact.

    Always get a kick out of the cops in Auckland airport,not taking the piss here,they pack 9mm,which I agree with,but really?where is the threat here,not say something could not happen,but the vetting process to get past checkpoint Charlie is pretty bloody good,yet.....the threat on the streets is much greater,and I witness many cops without firepower,where the shit could really hit the fan.

    The conversation from some,”we don’t want to get like the yanks”,but for those well travelled will tell you,many countries cops are well armed etc etc.....New Zealand won’t be far behind,Little ol Kiwi has the same issues as many other countries,and dealing with with well armed criminals requires the same measured response.I do not envy the police position with these situations,reality is a stark reminder of the shit individuals we have in society,......some just don’t belong in it........
    Maca49 and outlander like this.
    It's not the mountain we conquer,but ourselves.....Sir Edmund Hillary

  11. #26
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy79 View Post
    and here I am getting more fun and satisfaction at outsmarting and stalking a 12pointer than shooting at apiece of metal hanging in the air. I must be one of those sicko hunters eh?
    for the record I do shoot at steel and paper, I just don't find it to be as rewarding.
    Your becoming a PC soft cock!!
    A330driver likes this.
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  12. #27
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    Sorry but your uncle is out of touch, I'm guessing he isn't ever out on the frontline or assessing recent cases by speaking to the people involved in the incident. I can tell you through my experience that NZ cops pulling guns on offenders is actually quite rare.

    In my experience and knowledge, NZ Police are exceptionally good at using less than lethal options whenever appropriate and deescalating situations, like Scahill said, on average Police get shot at by offenders twice as often as Police shoot at offenders. You'd be surprised at just how rarely TASERs and Batons get used.

    Your idea of the deployment and use of the STG is way off the mark. They are governed by the same laws as every other Police Officer so their rules of engagement are exactly the same.
    I was with you until you mentioned Carhill!
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  13. #28
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    As for the amount of "training" cops get with firearms, my son tells me it's pretty pathetic. Budgets dictate they fire bugger all live rounds per year and the big cost-saving thing is a simulator.

    What's the bet the Aussie cops get far more live firing practice? It's false economy here.
    A330driver and outlander like this.

  14. #29
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    its the old case eh 'dammed if we do dammed if we dont".mental health professionals similarly get arseholes after a client tops themselves MSM love doing it.
    You people are the professionals youre trained -you should be able to stop it .In both cases often the exact circumstances are never made public ,so its all fine and dandy in hindsight to sit and pontificate in the court of public opinion.
    however lest ye waanna judge ..walk a mile in the other mans shoes.
    would i be a modern copper -no not for all the bloody tea in china.I must say the ones ive met here on the coast during my time here get a bloody big thumbs up from me!
    Maca49 and A330driver like this.

  15. #30
    Member stug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A330driver View Post

    Always get a kick out of the cops in Auckland airport,not taking the piss here,they pack 9mm,which I agree with,but really?where is the threat here,not say something could not happen,but the vetting process to get past checkpoint Charlie is pretty bloody good,yet.....the threat on the streets is much greater,and I witness many cops without firepower,where the shit could really hit the fan.

    ...
    Pretty sure the reasons cops carry at the airport is because of an international security requirement rather than NZ Police policy.
    Ryan and Steve123 like this.

 

 

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