Thread: Should movie stars be allowed to outsource personal responsibility?

If he is also a producer I would say his goose is cooked, also the argument about years of experience and if true about being used with live rounds, well he would be expected to know that also.

This type of firearm accidents shouldn't happen. But they do.

Maybe we should think about this one next time we pick up a firearm, never hurts to contemplate what can go wrong occasionally.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

I'm not sure that you could call the armourer a nepotism hire, small industry and all that. But for whatever reason definitely didn't prep for the rehersal. The camera crew walked off set that morning pissed off about accommodation and expenses/conditions apparently so the entire project was a cock up from the get go, schedules not being followed and all sorts of stuff out of sync to what should have been happening. It's possible that the gun was fully prepped for a different sequence and the cluster with the crew walkoff that morning threw everything out so much that the rehersal wasn't meant to be happening and the armourer wasn't in the loop. Either way, loaded/operational guns shouldn't have been left like that without being guard dogged, and shouldn't have been picked up without passing through at least two sets of safety inspections (once when picked up, once by actor when handed over).

it was nepotism, she is the daughter of a famous (In movie circles) armourer and had only done a year or two of experience under him and had expressed doubts about her own competency.

Originally Posted by JessicaChen

Apparently the same gun used on set was also used by the crew for recreational target shooting off set. Both live rounds and blanks were present on set because of this recreational activity. The armorer is an incompetent nepotism hire. There are multiple layers of utter failure that occurred in this incident.

Maybe something to it. Certainly not the gun safety culture you'd get if more people on the set were safety-trained gun owners. An interesting take here on how "divided America" may have been unhelpful leading up to this accident:



The relevant part about 2 minutes in.

I find it interesting that Baldwin, because of his A list status, depends on underlings to keep him from making mistakes.
IMHO - if you're the one in control of the trigger, YOU are ultimately responsible for the consequences of pulling the trigger.
I agree that having live and blank ammunition on the same set has the makings of a disaster.
Whatever the crew's after work activities are with the studio guns - live round plinking for example - those rounds should not have been on an active filming set.
As co-producer/manager, Baldwin is ultimately responsible for the safety/actions of the whole crew.
'I didn't know" isn't going to cut it in American Court's.

I am betting that 'Blaming the Gun' wont work...........which means that 'Blaming the person or persons' will result in lots of lawyers making lots of money due to the amount of 'stupid' shown by those present.........

Originally Posted by 40mm

There were three people at fault there.

The star for not che king it himself.
The person who passed it to him.
And the person who had it pointed at her, she should have also checked.

Nobody here seems to have ever heard of that other actor who got shot on set...

Bruce Lee's son I think. Brandon

armourer has just come out and said "has no idea where they got loaded rounds from,the whole set was becoming unsafe"

another post said the crew were plinking away between shoots......hmmmmm makes a fella wonder what went on.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

armourer has just come out and said "has no idea where they got loaded rounds from,the whole set was becoming unsafe"

another post said the crew were plinking away between shoots......hmmmmm makes a fella wonder what went on.

And that the firearms were locked up at lunchtime and in the evenings. Did someone else have a set of keys?

Still it would seem strange if she didn't know this was going on.

Will Smith shows how its done.

https://youtu.be/UELwDUEl1Po

lol shit my opinion of Will just went up

….as sad as this situation is….. Baldwin is an arsehole…. Anti-gun advocate for years….. if he’d taken the time to learn firearm safety this may of not happened

I have a mate who works on these movie sets,… sparky,chippee,jack of all trades…has worked this stuff for 30 years.He was telling me the previous crew,armorers etc walked off this job,…. Safety issues,poor practices etc….. the new lot considered scabs!!!…..Baldwin has a history of poor mgt decisions,his self importance is a joke

Not a fan of Baldwin either, but as much as a lot of people are suggesting he is to blame, here is another way to look at it.

I don't know what the rules / laws are in the US.
However, if it had happened in NZ, the first think I would be asking is, was he licensed?
It has been stated, he is an anti-gun advocate, so for the sake of this argument, lets assume he wasn't licensed.

In NZ, you are allowed to use a firearm unlicensed if you have a licensed person with you. The licensed person is responsible for anything you do with that firearm.

Originally Posted by kiwi-adam

Not a fan of Baldwin either, but as much as a lot of people are suggesting he is to blame, here is another way to look at it.

I don't know what the rules / laws are in the US.
However, if it had happened in NZ, the first think I would be asking is, was he licensed?
It has been stated, he is an anti-gun advocate, so for the sake of this argument, lets assume he wasn't licensed.

In NZ, you are allowed to use a firearm unlicensed if you have a licensed person with you. The licensed person is responsible for anything you do with that firearm.

From whichever perspective regarding personal responsibility with firearms, being the producer who hired an inexperienced person who then stated they were uncomfortable with the role is likely to be the big issue here. A bit like a Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking PCBU under worksafe. Unless you can divorce yourself of responsibility in the US (i doubt it), you will wear some part of the blame.

Quote…. However, if it had happened in NZ,…….. well Adam ,it’s not in kiwi

2ndly…… the fact is ,this was a poorly run,managed operation either way you look at it.The carelessness,and attitudes either for a kiwi or yank run operation were poor at best……… either way ,a women lost her life!!!

According to my mate…. To be the “Armourer”… requires no “real” licence…. .. other than previous experience,word of mouth,previous positions with other projects etc……. I found that hard to believe me ,but he assured me this was the case….. this position requires no degrees,licenses,titles,etc etc etc…… I still trying to find out if that’s correct or not