Thread: Help Stop 1080, please sign

Mr Browning, time for a few lessons in pest control.
Rats when broadcast poisoned go into a breeding frenzy. They think the species is under threat and really go for it. When they are taken down slowly this doesn't happen.
If the numbers are kept really low even a super mast on steroids won't matter much as there isn't much stock to populate, BUT you have to keep at it.

Possums only have one young a year. If you can't control them by a consistent trapping system then give up and let someone else do the job because your not up to it.

Deer, well if it wasn't for all the issues created by poisons we would have a much bigger export trade, same goes for possum and rabbit.

Rabbits, doc Twizel hasn't used 1080 on them since 1996, they do however use pindone when they are breaking in a block after fencing it, currently they are spending 50 cents a hectare to maintain rabbits at a very low level. They are doing that via fence maintenance and shooting. The army base at Tekapo has no rabbit problems now, it's regularly night shot.

Boom or bust does NOT work for pest control ever.
Then we find out the ways 1080 is often misused; no monitoring which means no fucking idea on how much is required
Completely wrong times of year
Wrong amounts of prefeed (1 instead of 2 which is industry standard for a fucking reason
No monitoring of none target species
And my total favourite BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO IT OR WE LOSE THE MONEY What. The. Fuck? The fucking budget is more important than anything else.

Two weeks ago almost to the day there was a drop behind Luggate township by ospri. They did not consult the people of the town even though that's a water supply....... oh, and the public plus the townspeople had asked several times for.meeting etc. Those.filthy dirty stinking fucktards did it away and fuck what anyone said. You wonder why people are getting a bit hot under the collar.

Originally Posted by Mr Browning

Bing, that sounds promising ah? It would be interesting to see some of the footage from your trail camera if it could be uploaded.

Mr Browning, Mr Bing is referencing the Alberta Rat Line. I have approach DOC here - normal drill visit the Minister explain how it works etc - result zero interest from DOC.

The Rat Line is a wide area kept clear of vegetation with bait stations randomly scattered like land mines across it. Rats hate crossing open ground and will run from one bait station to the next, stopping to take advantage of the handily placed refreshments. I never saw any evidence of rats around grain stores, Barley silage or feedlots when I worked in Alberta.

There is no doubt that 1080 poison has a dramatic positive effect on forest plants. However it kills any vertebrate and invertebrate life forms that ingest it.
The only place for it is as a once only knock down tool followed by ground based control for fenced predator free inland islands. Even then it is difficult to justify such gross cruelty to sentient animals.

Much of the push for continuing the use of 1080 comes from the idea that this will 'save the birds'. But it is not pest animals that caused the rapid sometimes sudden extinction of native bird populations, it was actually bird diseases that came here with introduced birds. Blackbirds as an example have no special defences that protect them from Rats and Stoats yet they thrive on the bush edge where native birds struggle.


The ONLY way to save endangered native birds is stop poison drops and use ALL of that money to establish inland islands for those birds in areas where remnant populations still remain. These will be areas where there is less introduced disease and where there are bird populations that have gone through a genetic bottleneck and now have some natural resistance to build from. Start spending $ 100 mil per year on fenced sanctuaries see what happens

Very interesting reading here

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

There is no doubt that 1080 poison has a dramatic positive effect on forest plants. However it kills any vertebrate and invertebrate life forms that ingest it.
The only place for it is as a once only knock down tool followed by ground based control for fenced predator free inland islands. Even then it is difficult to justify such gross cruelty to sentient animals.

Much of the push for continuing the use of 1080 comes from the idea that this will 'save the birds'. But it is not pest animals that caused the rapid sometimes sudden extinction of native bird populations, it was actually bird diseases that came here with introduced birds. Blackbirds as an example have no special defences that protect them from Rats and Stoats yet they thrive on the bush edge where native birds struggle.


The ONLY way to save endangered native birds is stop poison drops and use ALL of that money to establish inland islands for those birds in areas where remnant populations still remain. These will be areas where there is less introduced disease and where there are bird populations that have gone through a genetic bottleneck and now have some natural resistance to build from. Start spending $ 100 mil per year on fenced sanctuaries see what happens

Do you have any evidence for this? They are big statements.

Quote:I have approach DOC here - normal drill visit the Minister explain how it works etc - result zero interest from DOC.

This makes for an educational and interesting read for those of us trying to get a grip on the 1080 issue.....did they(DOC) ever say “why” they were not interested...

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

There is no doubt that 1080 poison has a dramatic positive effect on forest plants. However it kills any vertebrate and invertebrate life forms that ingest it.
The only place for it is as a once only knock down tool followed by ground based control for fenced predator free inland islands. Even then it is difficult to justify such gross cruelty to sentient animals.

Much of the push for continuing the use of 1080 comes from the idea that this will 'save the birds'. But it is not pest animals that caused the rapid sometimes sudden extinction of native bird populations, it was actually bird diseases that came here with introduced birds. Blackbirds as an example have no special defences that protect them from Rats and Stoats yet they thrive on the bush edge where native birds struggle.


The ONLY way to save endangered native birds is stop poison drops and use ALL of that money to establish inland islands for those birds in areas where remnant populations still remain. These will be areas where there is less introduced disease and where there are bird populations that have gone through a genetic bottleneck and now have some natural resistance to build from. Start spending $ 100 mil per year on fenced sanctuaries see what happens

Now that will bring out the trolls from under the bridge

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Mr Browning, Mr Bing is referencing the Alberta Rat Line. I have approach DOC here - normal drill visit the Minister explain how it works etc - result zero interest from DOC.

The Rat Line is a wide area kept clear of vegetation with bait stations randomly scattered like land mines across it. Rats hate crossing open ground and will run from one bait station to the next, stopping to take advantage of the handily placed refreshments. I never saw any evidence of rats around grain stores, Barley silage or feedlots when I worked in Alberta.

Rats in Canada -
Norway rats are unique because they must live with people or their structures. They cannot survive in natural areas and cannot overwinter in cultivated fields in Canada. Norway rats are not native to North America but were introduced to the east coast about 1775 and gradually spread westward over most of the continent. Norway rats spread westward as North America became settled, as farms became closer together and as cultivated land began to dominate the landscape.
Rats entered eastern Saskatchewan in the 1920s and extended their range to the northwest at about 24 km (15 mi) per year (Figure 1). Rats were first reported on the eastern border of Alberta in 1950, and would have continued to spread westward had it not been for a rat control program that halted their advance and continues to maintain an essentially rat-free province to date.

Alberta successfully operate a rat control zone in Eastern Alberta - to stop the invasion of rats from their Eastern neighbouring State of Saskatchewan - The control zone is 600km long and 29km wide - the people of Alberta are extremely fortunate not to have rats. This is not by chance but by design. For the past four decades, Alberta has had a program to keep rats out of the province. This publication describes the evolution, history and current status of the rat control program in Alberta, and discusses factors which contributed to its success -
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex3441#government
Winter in Alberta is characterized by several months of continuous snow cover and below-freezing temperatures. Overwinter infestations are limited to man-made structures; severe climate prevents colonies from overwintering in open fields where they would probably go undetected.
This is an amazing example of people power and what can be achieved if people get focused on controlling a pest

Sounds like the AT220: https://nzautotraps.com/

The use of photoeyes (infra-red beam) on the one that can do mice seems dangerous for non-targets.

Looks promising otherwise - I see several potential issues that might be exposed quickly such as the radius of the corners of the enclosure being to sharp - needs to be a smoother radius too prevent rats chewing them open (smoother than a rats mouth gape can grab onto). A rat/several rats could get into it and destroy the wiring very quickly.
The pull type trigger might be a barrier to efficient control of rats as it can be variable whether they will do this. While the AT220 doesn't seem to be targeted for the stoats I would be as bold to say that they would not set off such a trigger. Bait life will also be an issue - I've informally tested "long-life" baits that are supposed to last for months that have no smell after days - Suspicious at best on their long-term efficacy.

Some learnings from the Goodnature A12 and A24 traps (CO2 self resetting possums and rat/stoat traps) could be transferred to speed up development it seems.

Interesting trap alright but looks a bit chunky at the moment to lug around the hills?

Having used the Good Nature A12 with 16g canister - bit of a rip off really - they retail for about $185.00. And quote up to 12 possums from one 16g canister, charging about $7.00 per co2 canister. So the A12 and A24 traps have ongoing costs with lure, counter etc, not just a one off in buying them. I have now sourced other 16g canisters at half the GN cost and even sourced a 25g canister that i expect to get more than 12 activations to make it last longer in the hills. Personally though the GN traps are well designed i think the high cost for ongoing use is a bit over the top - hence only a Govt Dept like DOC would buy them in bulk. What do DOC do with the thousands of empty co2 canisters - can't be refilled with the top pierced. Recycled, yeah nah. Can't beat a whole lot of gin traps laid out and fur in return.

And the climate assists in pest control a situation that will not occur here.

Originally Posted by Hunteast

Interesting trap alright but looks a bit chunky at the moment to lug around the hills?

Having used the Good Nature A12 with 16g canister - bit of a rip off really - they retail for about $185.00. And quote up to 12 possums from one 16g canister, charging about $7.00 per co2 canister. So the A12 and A24 traps have ongoing costs with lure, counter etc, not just a one off in buying them. I have now sourced other 16g canisters at half the GN cost and even sourced a 25g canister that i expect to get more than 12 activations to make it last longer in the hills. Personally though the GN traps are well designed i think the high cost for ongoing use is a bit over the top - hence only a Govt Dept like DOC would buy them in bulk. What do DOC do with the thousands of empty co2 canisters - can't be refilled with the top pierced. Recycled, yeah nah. Can't beat a whole lot of gin traps laid out and fur in return.

The trap were testing is a proto version of the Autotrap and looks quite different from the production one. I've been caught out far too many times by being lured into making statements based on observation alone without a thorough, quantifiable and reviewable set of procedures to gather and asses data so I'll wait until the year is out and we've had a good old chew over the results. Having said that I will say that it is so far performing very well mechanically and that no possum escapes the jaw of doom if it's drawn to the trap and all possums that have come into the field of view of the trail camera have so far been attracted and killed. I think that the traps potential compared to other traps (we're using them all) is the massive reduction in man hours to maintain and service - but again, we'll have to wait and see how they work out over a year and alongside other traps and in a variety of locations and all the rest of it.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

And the climate assists in pest control a situation that will not occur here.

Climates a big one for sure. In WA there's a large offshore island (Dirk Hartog) which is about 80k's long and I suppose 5ish to about 15k's across which has had all of the wild sheep, goats and cats shot out and trapped - no small job in itself but as they've proven it's possible. The interesting bit was that the rat population was pretty much non existent before they even started because the place was just too dry to suite their needs or so it's believed.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Mr Browning, time for a few lessons in pest control.
Rats when broadcast poisoned go into a breeding frenzy. They think the species is under threat and really go for it. When they are taken down slowly this doesn't happen.
If the numbers are kept really low even a super mast on steroids won't matter much as there isn't much stock to populate, BUT you have to keep at it.

Possums only have one young a year. If you can't control them by a consistent trapping system then give up and let someone else do the job because your not up to it.

Deer, well if it wasn't for all the issues created by poisons we would have a much bigger export trade, same goes for possum and rabbit.

Rabbits, doc Twizel hasn't used 1080 on them since 1996, they do however use pindone when they are breaking in a block after fencing it, currently they are spending 50 cents a hectare to maintain rabbits at a very low level. They are doing that via fence maintenance and shooting. The army base at Tekapo has no rabbit problems now, it's regularly night shot.

Boom or bust does NOT work for pest control ever.
Then we find out the ways 1080 is often misused; no monitoring which means no fucking idea on how much is required
Completely wrong times of year
Wrong amounts of prefeed (1 instead of 2 which is industry standard for a fucking reason
No monitoring of none target species
And my total favourite BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO IT OR WE LOSE THE MONEY What. The. Fuck? The fucking budget is more important than anything else.

Two weeks ago almost to the day there was a drop behind Luggate township by ospri. They did not consult the people of the town even though that's a water supply....... oh, and the public plus the townspeople had asked several times for.meeting etc. Those.filthy dirty stinking fucktards did it away and fuck what anyone said. You wonder why people are getting a bit hot under the collar.

Not entirely sure why it was directed at me, but partly agree with some of what you have to say at least.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Mr Browning, Mr Bing is referencing the Alberta Rat Line. I have approach DOC here - normal drill visit the Minister explain how it works etc - result zero interest from DOC.

The Rat Line is a wide area kept clear of vegetation with bait stations randomly scattered like land mines across it. Rats hate crossing open ground and will run from one bait station to the next, stopping to take advantage of the handily placed refreshments. I never saw any evidence of rats around grain stores, Barley silage or feedlots when I worked in Alberta.

I believe Bing was talking about a self resetting trap, and yes, Ive heard and read about the rat line in Canada and I see time out has post quite an educational write-up about it. Could that work here? Maybe, it would take a lot of time and man power to setup and maintain. I cant imagine the greenies would like a baron strip of land 20+ kms wide across the country though.

Sadly the govt mentality seems to be "employ 5 men and give them a job for 20 years" rather than employ 100 and have the job done in about 6 months. There just isnt enough people on the ground to do an effective job (apart from Doc Twizel on the rabbits it seems) and nothing they do will make a great deal of difference other than minimal control.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/1...tuatara-deaths

May not be 1080 but shows the outcome of secondary poisoning. Then again, secondary poisoning of 1080 has been ignored and denied outright it happens.

Is there a way to sign online ?