Thread: Help Stop 1080, please sign

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Hi @Tahr, in answer to your request for evidence for my statements: Paragraph 1 - 1080 poison is cruel without doubt so well proven that I don't believe you would debate that point. The same for the poisoning of vertebrates and invertebrates alike.

Para 2: If you look at the extinctions of birds like the NZ Native Quail Coturnix Novaezelandiae , this bird was common across the Nth Sth and Great Barrier Islands, so common that daily bags of 100 were easily shot. Then simultaneously they disappeared. Bird life international lists the cause as 'diseases from introduced game birds' The following link will show you how extensive the problem is - http://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar_...l=1&oi=scholar

The inland sanctuary Islands is a 'no-brainer' we already see how these work - how birds move to safe areas to breed and then move out into the wider area. The same concept can also be seen working with marine sanctuaries.

Sorry Sorry Wrong link attached earlier http://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar?...=1&oi=scholart Click on link and go to the third paper down which is by 'Smith'

Originally Posted by bing

I have no doubt that any number of Lawyers could be 'purchased' to champion any point of view you care to put forward.

Opinion, unqualified and tested observation without the guidance of scientific best practice (tested and reviewable process that bears up under the scrutiny of peer review) is an unfortunate distraction at best and I must admit an understandable attraction but mostly just a real wast of time we can't afford. Once a large enough pool of data has been gathered it needs to be assessed without the influence of financial or proffessional reward etc.

It's understandable that when a fella who stalks a block he knows well does not see rats for example or evidence of rats to naturally enough assume that they are not present or at least in very low numbers. Track tunnels with baits and cameras etc are at the least a proven starting standard for assessing population numbers, short of that 'observation opinion' does not help.

What I find most discouraging at the moment are the numbers of folk who have no or little faith in scientific standards or are unaware of them and are invested in promoting baseless notions or are more invested in their pet or preffered version rather than being prepared to constantly test and re visit their current understanding critically - good tested research is not opinion, it is unless you can come up with reliable tested data to prove otherwise fact.

Hi Wirehunt, I'm not having a go at you here or anyone really, just got on a roll, having a rave and getting thought's observations on paper

Bing, you have one fairly large problem with your theories. Docs own research in conjunction with landcare showed 1080 in fact INCREASED rat numbers.
Now going by that knowledge.doc should have A: done more research B: admitted the failure and canned the poisoning. They did.neither.

As I type this in sitting I'm sitting in Haast, just a very few kms away from where they dropped 1080 TODAY in some flowery kiwi habit.....
Down around the Arawata and Waitoto.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Bing, you have one fairly large problem with your theories. Docs own research in conjunction with landcare showed 1080 in fact INCREASED rat numbers.
Now going by that knowledge.doc should have A: done more research B: admitted the failure and canned the poisoning. They did.neither.

As I type this in sitting I'm sitting in Haast, just a very few kms away from where they dropped 1080 TODAY in some flowery kiwi habit.....
Down around the Arawata and Waitoto.

Hi Wirehunt, I don't have a theory or a barrow to push which allows me to (if I choose to make the effort and survey and constantly asses the available creditable information) observe the relevance and issues surrounding 1080. This does not require an 'opinion' - just work a sense of critical analysis and some cynicism. It would be helpful to myself and others if you would provide links to creditable sources to support the statements you make re 1080.

No amount of research is enough, that is a given, and it never will be. As for what DOC should or should not have done - I'm unable to comment as I'm aware that I'm not currently privy all of the information and that I'm not sufficiently educated in the areas of expertise required to make those assessments.

What I do know is I'm off to the bush tomorrow to blood my new 243 on a fallow I've been eyeing up for the freezer.