Just hunt spots with no deer, then you'll know that everything you see is a human. If anyone needs some suggestions for such spots I can point you in the right direction
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Just hunt spots with no deer, then you'll know that everything you see is a human. If anyone needs some suggestions for such spots I can point you in the right direction
I've never bought it up here as the family of the people involved are members here also, but stuff it, here goes. When I was a kid a mates dad had his head blown off by his best mate of 25 years. Both very experienced bushmen. Mate was carrying a set of hind quarters pikau style out on dusk, which matched his mousy brown/ginger hair perfectly. Shooter gave a whistle as you do to get it to stop and turn. The mate carrying the deer stopped and turned and that was that. These were seasoned sika hunters, very well respected in the area. He swore black and blue it was a deer, describing the deers coat (which matched the carried hind quarters) the behavior of the deer (stopping and turning) and the position of the front legs which he aimed above for the shoulder shot (a small tree which he drilled through and into his best mates head)
Identify your target beyond all doubt please.The best piece of hunting advice I have been given, just like Maca49s mate, is that unless you can identify the age and sex of a deer, don't pull the trigger. Forget snap shots and running shots.
Be safe and vigilant everyone, and don't ever think that if couldn't happen to you as complacency is a killer.
So you shoot and kill or maim someone, of course not on purpose, but you did break one of the seven rules.
And you claim what you saw it was a deer, your gun malfunctioned etc etc and you'll get let off with a rap over your fingers...
But in the courtroom and the personal jury of your own mind, you are found guilty, guilty, guilty, every night you stare at the ceiling and think about "the days before" when you could sleep. There is no lawyer in that court room to defend you against yourself, no talk of confirmation bias... or that it's human to err.
There is no room for complacency. We must both believe it could happen to anyone (even to Ryan Songhurst, God forbid), but we ALSO have to believe as strongly that it IS avoidable.
I had a "discussion" with an older "acquaintance" once about a shooting death. I think the shooting happened in the 70's. The guy was a very experienced hunter and was hunting from a camp with some young boys (scouts or similar I think). Anyhow; he was hunting with one of them and sent the boy back to camp. The hunter saw a deer and shot at it. If I remember rightly he winged it. Anyway; the young fella on his way back to camp heard the shot and turned around and came back to see what had been shot. The hunter was looking for the deer; saw a movement; fired and killed the boy..... :-(
I maintained that the hunter should have been tried for manslaughter for firing at movement. He did go to court but got let off because there was not meant to be anyone else in the area and it "wasn't the hunter's fault". The "acquaintance" was a friend of his and reckoned that the verdict was right. Whereas I adamantly reckoned that it was bullshit. Firing at movement for god's sake..... His continued argument was that no one else was allowed in the area. I brought up the fact that a lost tramper etc (and many other scenarios) could have wandered in etc; but I couldn't get him to change his opinion. It did get a tad heated ;-) And; the acquaintance" was a hunter..... Scary shit....
shit sammie no matter how we cut it... the fella who made a fatal error of judgement will have to live with it for the rest of his life and the family of victim will have to bury someone long before thier due time
if you think "it cant happen to me" you are being part of the problem not the solution
if you think.....am I absofuckin certain its a LIVE,FEMALE/MALE DEER/ITS HEAD AND NECK ARE DOING PROPER HEAD N NECK THINGYS and DEFINATELY NOT a person...is firing zone safe, before you close bolt/fan back hammer/take off safety catch....well God willing you wont ever have to push your EPIRB for someone youve just shot,
did anyone notice 6 poor buggers also died on the road this weekend.
That's the bit I left out @Cordite, he topped himself not long after. Two families left without fathers.
I hit the "Reply with Quote" butten 10 mins ago and still cannot put down words
You have hit the nerve - well and true
I wanted to say before - there are 2 fatilites in most of these cases/disarsters - I have often thought - it may have been easier on the one that took the unenteded bullet :-(
Be safe Sarvo. Be safe everyone. RIP uncle John and Mark
Quote....Imo there is a huge difference in how human factors affect aviation and hunting. Apart from maybe some visual references they should not be compared.
As you say,”IMO”.....let me know when you want to have that conversation,it’s all about “decision making”...explain to me where these two differ,as with many others vocations,....there is a plethora of information and studies that say otherwise.......kinda surprised you said that
ok Im going to start another thread....there is one on other pub that gets bumped each roar.... please keep it to what we have seen/done and leave the judgements out.
the whole shit sammie brings tears to my eyes every year.
I like many others aced my human factors exam Malc.
I know it is about decision making.
However it is also about how are senses are influenced and being able to recognise and cope.
You would have to agree that human factors come most into play regarding aviation because of some form of stress when it goes wrong.
There should be no stress when hunting and making stupid decisions.
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I would certainly agree with your point,but have you not actually answered why this is happening,those very statements are actually what is happening....or certainly contribute to this whole discussion,.....it is just “not” about identifying the target,it’s about the the “state” of the hunter,,the human factors that contribute to the demise of ones decision making abilities.......splitting hairs maybe,but the end result started with some flawed input,......stress or otherwise
for what its worth my hunting mates all really like the hunting n fishing tee we bought that is patch work in design....cant think of plurry name but it really stands out well as it has orange/blue/lime green/camo/green..... pink n purple work too but guys a bit funny about wearing it.
the tepari products hats from oamaru stick out like doggies danglies...smurf blue.
30 plus years ago one of my best mates was shot and killed by a hunter in his party, mistaken for a deer. They were hunting sika in summer my mate had ginger hair and while out hunting strayed from his intended area and was shot. It was a case of not identifying his target, at the court hearing the shooter swore 110% that he was looking at a deer but the judge said you were 110% wrong.
He was fined a $1000.
Another case I know of happened to a friend of my brother, hunting in the Kiamia Ranges many years ago. It had been raining and the guy shot was wearing a yellow rain coat ( no fancy gear back then) they ( three of them ) had been stalking an area heavy with deer sign the guy who was shot came out on a clearing and paused for a break, when the shooter came out on the bottom of the clearing and raised his rifle and let strip. The bullet hit the scope on his rifle and sent bits of bullet and scope through various parts of his upper body. Bleeding badly his brother managed to patch him up the best he could and got help and he survived. The guy shooting was convinced he was a deer. ( the mind had been made up the next thing he saw was going to be a deer due to the amount of sign about.)
It's hard to believe anyone could make that mistake especially when the one shot was wearing a yellow rain coat, but there you have it. It shouldn't happen if the safety rules are observed but it does happen. These two cases illustrate that we must be careful all the time, be safe this roar.
I stay clear of the Kaimai's during the roar to many people in there, also a lot of people that only hunt once a year out for a easy stag, i think they get impatient bashing through the thick bush and end up not identifying the target properly. there must be some way to use GPS or some kind of tech to let guys know that there is another hunter in close proximity, say 200m, may cost a few bucks but its better than shooting each other, make it compulsory on doc land along with a emergency locator beacon, just an idea
Good idea muka88 but it should be made cheaper so everyone has one, it would certainly alert you to the presence of another hunter before you see them. They did make vests that had strips on them that would let out a signal within a certain distance, the rifle had the transmitter attached. Once again good concept but every one would need to be set up for it to work.
the issue with electric gadgets muka88 and there are some out there...is you could then shoot someone without one because you KNOW they arent a person cause they arent setting off your beeper etc etc
compulsory doesnt work for poacher or indeed even a tramper/bird watcher/pig hunter.
Was just having this discussion regarding electronic solutions. http://iris.huntersafetylab.com/iris/
The problem is cost, uptake and false negatives. The cost limits uptake, which makes it pointless if you're the only one using it, and it requires the other person to be wearing one too. Shooters could be lulled into a false sense of security, where the widget hasn't detected a human, so it could work against you and reinforce the belief that it is an animal.
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Best to stick with the safety rules
I do see your point micky ,perhaps if it was as easy as downloading a free app a good level of participation could be achieved, i don't think we can ever make hunting fool proof, basic firearms safety and education is still the best way forward.
Which is the whole problem relying on electronic shit is just another excuse not to identify your target 100% before you shoot at it might sound a bit gay or out there but how about doing some kind of blessing or prayer type of thing to whoever or what ever you believe in to take your focus off the shooting and make yourself aware of what your about to be doing may sound stupid but that's what I do I just take a quiet moment and ask that they allow me to hunt on the land and to protect me and the people in my hunting party and just run through what we intend to do this possibly might work for some people as you refocus on what your about to do and start with a calm clear mind
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Another example is when you see objects in the clouds
Our brains lie to us all the time add low light, bad eyesight and exitment and well it gets a heap worse.
In my opinion people that ‘100% seen/thought it was a deer’ instilled in there mind that the next sound/movement/sight was going to be a deer, leading them to have a gun ready to pull the trigger at the first opportunity.
Which is a scary thought and makes you think twice about going hunting as you want to come home to your family. Also makes getting time to go hunting hard as your family are scared you wont come back. Shouldnt be this way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f1G6Nx5VDw
Take a look at this. I remember a course I attended decades ago which featured this picture. Different people saw it differently and we learned to look for more than a single interpretation of what we first thought we saw or assumed; including the way we perceived people and events. I am always mindful of this when hunting and in everyday life.
@Pointer
Sure he is not the only one who has ended up doing that. We can talk about it, but who has the foggiest how it really feels? To be put beyond the reach of your friends and family and you then kill yourself too.
While I admire you're conviction to 110% positive id, I believe the human brain can see things that aren't there, or viceversa. Never been in the situation so can't really comment.
Just wondering if that pivot span was identified 100% when it got drilled:P
1. Treat every rearm as loaded
2. Always point rearms in a safe direction
3. Load a rearm only when ready to re
4. Identify your target beyond all doubt
5. Check your ring zone
6. Store rearms and ammunition safely
7. Avoid alcohol or drugs when handling rearms
8.Attitude and mindset
I don’t have an issue with the term,..,Attitude/mindset,the ‘term”
by R93,encompasses many issues without getting too technical and in-depth as to how we perceive,and analyze information,based on a present situation.Ones background wil play a huge part in ones decision making.
There are many here loaded with hunting and shooting backgrounds,some not so.
This discussion is at least trying to address/discuss a problem,and open a few eyes and minds,about...Attitudes and mindsets when hunting,....it can only be good
For all we know it was one of those AR15's, which are known to kill groups of people. So it might not be his fault anyway, it might be solely because of a semi-automatic high-powered rifle acting on its' own.
I think the confirmation bias thing is being over reported. It is a solid "excuse" with a theoretical basis.
I think that recklessness plays more part in this. Just take a look at the driving behaviour on our roads. This alone is evidence that some people will not keep basic safety rules because they are f..k..ts.
Regarding attitude I spose one of the first things is, when a person even fires a shot at a misidentifed target they are wanting to shoot or satisfied with anything. They have no minimum standards and maybe have their own induced stress and mindset of having to be successful.
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As I've always said there's hunters and then there's shooters