Thread: Warning Distressing and Disturbing Photographs- 1080 Poison

Originally Posted by ebf

Well @Maca49, even if John had those figures, I'm pretty sure you guys would claim they were false propaganda by the evil DOC/AHB/OSPRI conspiracy... And lord knows the likes of the anti-1080 brigade (who seem to be the only people you think are speaking the "truth") would not publish something like that

So it is a bit of a pointless argument, no ?

Problem with polar positions. Both sides have those that tend to take the extreme stance and be very vocal about it. It is the majority in the middle ground with rational thoughts that tend to get drowned out.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Problem with polar positions. Both sides have those that tend to take the extreme stance and be very vocal about it. It is the majority in the middle ground with rational thoughts that tend to get drowned out.

Come on gadget, that is way too sensible ! You should know by now that you are either completely anti-1080 or completely pro-1080. There is no middle ground

Originally Posted by ebf

There is no middle ground

Is too. It's 540

Originally Posted by Rushy

Is too. It's 540

Just about your age next birthday?

Originally Posted by ebf

Come on gadget, that is way too sensible ! You should know by now that you are either completely anti-1080 or completely pro-1080. There is no middle ground

That’s incorrect, convince me this spread of poison is s good thing?

Originally Posted by Maca49

That’s incorrect, convince me this spread of poison is s good thing?

You want examples of "positive" use ?

Just about every fenced sanctuary project in NZ, and most of the offshore islands used for saving species that are critically endangered.

Originally Posted by ebf

Well @Maca49, even if John had those figures, I'm pretty sure you guys would claim they were false propaganda by the evil DOC/AHB/OSPRI conspiracy... And lord knows the likes of the anti-1080 brigade (who seem to be the only people you think are speaking the "truth") would not publish something like that

So it is a bit of a pointless argument, no ?

I don’t disagree with you @ebf but DOC by their own actions cause this mistrust. My feeling are simple, NZ should not have this, or any other poison, dropped all over it. This is my homeland and it distresses my how easy it is for this to happen by one out of control group. By its very nature of operating, it knows it wrong. There seems to be very little activity or interest to persue any alternatives?

plenty of study info out there if you want to read about LD50s etc . I understand weka, kaka, kea etc were more likely to get poisoned. Kiwi poisoning seems unlikely.

"1080" is just another poison, there are many. My objection is that they do helicopter drops everywhere because it's cheap. If they really must helicopter drop poisons, leave it to only the most remote areas and the sanctuaries etc.. Let trappers and others do the accessible areas.

There are several things missing from that table that would make it more meaningful.
1/ a background zero level taken from animals in an area that has never been treated with the stuff. This is needed to determine what if any naturally occurring level of fluroacetate occurs in the environment.
2/ the size of the sample analysed and the percentage of tests were above that baseline figure
3/levels that have been recorded in dead animals that have been autopsied.

Someone mentioned LD 50 i dont believe the figures quote for rats etc can be applied across other species by extrapolation of body weight populations of animals historically exposed to naturally occuring fluroacetate in their diet have developed tolerance to high doses of the poison.

This appears to be a good piece of scientific work to start with but because of its incomplete nature drawing conclusions from it is open to criticisim.
Another point is that fluroacetate does not bioaccumulate ie is not stored in body tissues like fat as brodi is. It is excreted and metabolised away so for it to be present in tissue there has to have been recent exposure. Brodi on the other hand can remain stored in tissue for years in the case of large ma

They probably died from a brain aneurysm after reading this thread.

Geeze who wrote that dribble? DOC can write that, but still cannot see how to stop it? I think that shows they need to open up and truly show us just how good and friendly 1080 is? I think that maybe like pushing melted butter up a porcupines arse with a hot needle? If not, DOC have to show leadership and stop being bullies? I think the balls in their court to resolve it and stop bitching!

The poison crowd are under pressure , they'll never admit it like. The amount of people now against the crap is huge,that has to be good in the long term.
When a rat becomes cornered it'll do the unthinkable,don't think for one minute that the poison crew are any different.

Just goig back a little to fatal effects of poison. LD50 actually means 50% of the affected population will die. That is very high odds and totally unacceptable where an extremely lethal poision is involved. Where vulnerable species are concerned, such as humans or bats or kea or weka or dogs, surely an LD rating of only LD1 should be considered to vastly exceed any precautionary principle!
Put simply and realistically, the true risks of using this and sumilar poisons is being inexcusably downplayed.

Here something interesting.

No one is likely to come out of this smelling of roses but I've seen the farmer's version, and once again, here's another perspective.

Yep. The old story " he said; she said. " Few people will trust WRC as "independent" though. Shoukd be undertaken by truly independent agency that has no government affiliations whatsoever.