Thread: First rifle

Originally Posted by Friwi

If that s your budget don't go with the cheapest scope mounts either. And buy a descent cleaning rod ( a $100 ish in one piece carbon fibre) and some good copper solvent and patches.

And a heap of ammo to test and practice with. Man's aromatherapy.

OK so we've talked about how cheap can you go and there are a lot more people on tight budgets than big ones so that's a good start. However it is a feature of NZ in 2018 that there are a number of people like the original poster who are fortunate enough to be able to lay out $2000 to $3000 on their first rifle. Most hunters pretty soon spend this much anyway by buying a second and then a third rifle and upgrading from budget to mid range components. There are also a smaller number who could start at $5K or even $10K. There are some sports you can't even get started in for those amounts like fishing boats and car racing, so lets include some advice for well off beginners.

Can you hit the ground running by applying a lot of money ?
For a start, it is quite true that at this time cheap to mid range rifle like the Tikka T3 can shoot every bit as accurately as the most expensive. The difference is in ease of use. For instance, the Sako 85 costs 2.5x the tikka and has identical accuracy, barrel and trigger (it is advertised for 5 shot MOA rather than 3 but In reality the Tikka is good). The differences are that the action comes in 6 sizes while the Tikka only one. A .223 is the same size as a 300WinMag. The sako has a steel magazine and trigger guard and the mag holds 5 not 3. The bolt has 3 lugs so a lower bolt lift, quicker to reload and the bolt handle clears the scope better. The mount rails are tapered and although its annoying to be locked to the tapered dovetail system it does work well for the ordinary not technical hunter mounting their own scope. All these things make it more trouble free and nicer to use which can lead to better results. A synthetic stock, stainless rifle will not be damaged by hard use, scratched drops and dings. So, if you can afford to spend $5000, then I'd recommend a Sako 85 for your first rifle.

Then, to scopes. There's no doubt my mate's VX-3 was better than my VX-1 in low light and if you do have $1000 to spend rather than $400 that's good value. Stepping up again to the $3000 range, you have Nightforce, Kahles and Schmidt & Bender are rugged, reliable and nice to look through (that is your order of priority). Brightness, shapness and field of vie may add little to accuracy on paper but make it that much easier to shoot animals well. A beginner will do better with them. I'm talking about straightforward hunting models, not the larger, long range models with whistles and thistly reticles. Some of these like the Swarovski Z6 and Zeiss eurpoean models are marvels of optical engineering (like the Blaser Rifle) but the extra money has gone into features needed by specialist tactical and target shooters not by the hunter. So, a good scope will also make it much easier for the new shooter to hit the ground running because it will be easy to see the target, sights will adjust where you expect and stay where you put them. If you can afford to buy that then do it - don't struggle with an entry level piece of sporting goods out of a feeling of solidarity and rluctnce to disclose your disposable income. Remember to say "I only have one rifle ..." and you will be right.

Best quality, averagely accurate but highly reliable and easy to use gear can make it easier to learn good shooting skills and allow you to concentrate on learning bushcraft and hunting skills, have early success, without needing to chase wounded animals around on your first trips.

Originally Posted by Steve123

Howa's are great but just get the rifle. The package deal mounts, rings and scopes are not very good. As @ROKTOY says pretty much don't listen to the salesman, especially if he's trying to upsell you.

Howas are a little on the heavy side compared to Tikka, but both are accurate and reliable options. Both will normally shoot much better than the person buying them (This means your groups will usually be because of you not the rifle) With your budget I would suggest spending about $1000 on the rifle, and a similar amount on the scope and decent mounts etc. This leaves $500 for ammo. A lot of people spend their whole budget on the rifle and scope, then try to economise withte ammo because their budget ran out.

With the ammo, get enough that you can spend a decent amount of time at the range getting comfortable with the rifle, and learning how to shoot it accurately. Get to know it. A couple hundred rounds like this taking your time will make a huge difference to your shooting. And with the ammo, try a number of brands and type of ammo. See what works best for you in the rifle. I normally suggest a pack of 3 or four brands to start with and an extra pack of one that you would prefer to use. Use the first packet of your preferred one to sight in. Then use half a packet each of the others at targets. Dont worry if the point of impact is out a bit, at this stage you wan to know what groups the best. Then with the rest of the half packets do the same thing but use the brands in the opposite order. You wil find that your own shooting will improve (well hopefully it will) so when you get to the end of the ammo, you should have a pretty good idea on which it likes. If there is no preference between brands, or there are similar performance between a few of them, buy a heap of the easiest of those to get.

As for the calibre debate- your original options of 308 and 7mm08 will both suit most game you will find in NZ. My personal preference would be the 308, but only because I find it easier to get a wider choice of 308 ammo. Any calibre that is readily available across the shelf as ammunition from 6mm right up to 8mm will do you fine. (apart from the likes of 7.62x39 and other "short" rounds). If you think 243, 6.5x55, 7mm08, .25/06, 270. 308, 30/06, among others....you should be fine

I agree with Timmattalon re budget and general advice, and would add that I have a range at my place so see a few rifles come through for sighting and checking. From what I have seen and used I would go with 7mm08 and 140grn ammo. ( Personally I agree with Jesus choice and use a 270 myself to provide food for the deciples) As a beginner you are not going to have the confidence for long shots so a mid power caliber is what is needed. Out of those mid power choices the 7mm caliber is ideal for all NZ game. The 280 rem is the best of those (Parent 3006) and none of the other non-magnum calibres mentioned can touch it. But it has more power and recoil than you need so stepping it back the 7mm08 is perfect. It has superior ballistics to it's parent the 308win, will kill well without turning the side of an animal black like a 308 and is mild to shoot.
As to rifle, a really good trigger makes the biggest difference to accurate shooting. Rifle fit can be altered by taping some closed cell foam to the comb so that if you shoulder the rifle with your eyes closed, when you then open them you find yourself looking perfectly through the scope. If you buy a new rifle just remember to read up on how to 'shoot in' the barrel.

After studying all this advice and visiting a couple more stores. I arrived at the outdoorsman. The guy asked me 3 questions calibre,stock,barrel 7mm08, synthetic, stainless. answered them and he pulled about 9 rifles down we then pulled each one up 3 times to the shooting position then said yes or no got down to 4 rifles and did the same thing.

The Browning was ruled out for the offset shaped grip

The howa for the weight and stock thickness

Now we are down to 2 the Remington and the tikka.

Eyes closed to shooting position and open eye once there. Did this a half dozen times on each my eye was slightly left of the centre each time but worse on the Remington. The Remington was also slightly shorter.

So we arrived at the Tikka.

After looking through a few scopes at $750-$950 rang the luepold V3 just had a very clear colour sharpness to it.

That there is the process of how I chose my 1st rifle. Thanks for everyone's opinion knowledge and advice

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Originally Posted by Jrm234

The idea of going with mates would be great. If I had mates with similar interest my friend circle remains the same from high school. Only one other friend with his firearms license and he only owns a shotgun for duck shooting. No family have an interest either.
So I'm essentially going in blind seeking advice.

As for scratching and using a rifle. Well my dirtbike was 7k when I brought it all shiny and pretty now it's a few years later and it's done some work all scratched bent something etc. I'd rather buy a good tool than it become a display piece

You have come to the wright place for advice & to make new friends , some really decent people on here aside from those 270 & poo 43 owners ..take them with a grain of salt or just avoid them ...good choice in rifle not so sure about the cal though

Originally Posted by Jrm234

After studying all this advice and visiting a couple more stores. I arrived at the outdoorsman. The guy asked me 3 questions calibre,stock,barrel 7mm08, synthetic, stainless. answered them and he pulled about 9 rifles down we then pulled each one up 3 times to the shooting position then said yes or no got down to 4 rifles and did the same thing.

The Browning was ruled out for the offset shaped grip

The howa for the weight and stock thickness

Now we are down to 2 the Remington and the tikka.

Eyes closed to shooting position and open eye once there. Did this a half dozen times on each my eye was slightly left of the centre each time but worse on the Remington. The Remington was also slightly shorter.

So we arrived at the Tikka.

After looking through a few scopes at $750-$950 rang the luepold V3 just had a very clear colour sharpness to it.

That there is the process of how I chose my 1st rifle. Thanks for everyone's opinion knowledge and advice

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Should just put that up as a sticky imo.

now you will get all the ribbing.....tikka 7-08......are you sure your not an aucklander.....did it come with a latte.....etc etc.......take it on the chin sounds like you got the best fit for you in a calibre that will do exactly what you need ........now to get out there and test drive it

What do you mean a sticky?

Originally Posted by Tommy

Should just put that up as a sticky imo.

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Originally Posted by Jrm234

What do you mean a sticky?

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A sticky is one of the threads in each section permanently pinned to the top, ie what someone will see first. Usually reserved for crucial info, a well answered common question etc (example 4.1 on this definition https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sticky)

Originally Posted by Jrm234

After studying all this advice and visiting a couple more stores. I arrived at the outdoorsman. The guy asked me 3 questions calibre,stock,barrel 7mm08, synthetic, stainless. answered them and he pulled about 9 rifles down we then pulled each one up 3 times to the shooting position then said yes or no got down to 4 rifles and did the same thing.

The Browning was ruled out for the offset shaped grip

The howa for the weight and stock thickness

Now we are down to 2 the Remington and the tikka.

Eyes closed to shooting position and open eye once there. Did this a half dozen times on each my eye was slightly left of the centre each time but worse on the Remington. The Remington was also slightly shorter.

So we arrived at the Tikka.

After looking through a few scopes at $750-$950 rang the luepold V3 just had a very clear colour sharpness to it.

That there is the process of how I chose my 1st rifle. Thanks for everyone's opinion knowledge and advice

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Sounds like you ended up with a quality setup in a good caliber. Good luck with the hunting

Originally Posted by scotty

now you will get all the ribbing.....tikka 7-08......are you sure your not an aucklander.....did it come with a latte.....etc etc.......take it on the chin sounds like you got the best fit for you in a calibre that will do exactly what you need ........now to get out there and test drive it

I can guarantee I am not an Aucklander couldn't think of anything worse. But it did come with a mocha. Yep took it home and put it into the shooting position a few more times and it just sits nicely each time.

Unfortunately won't be going for therapy today as I'm on call but next weekend will be another story the 4packs of free ammo I got aswell will be cleaned up

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Originally Posted by Jrm234

After studying all this advice and visiting a couple more stores. I arrived at the outdoorsman. The guy asked me 3 questions calibre,stock,barrel 7mm08, synthetic, stainless. answered them and he pulled about 9 rifles down we then pulled each one up 3 times to the shooting position then said yes or no got down to 4 rifles and did the same thing.

The Browning was ruled out for the offset shaped grip

The howa for the weight and stock thickness

Now we are down to 2 the Remington and the tikka.

Eyes closed to shooting position and open eye once there. Did this a half dozen times on each my eye was slightly left of the centre each time but worse on the Remington. The Remington was also slightly shorter.

So we arrived at the Tikka.

After looking through a few scopes at $750-$950 rang the luepold V3 just had a very clear colour sharpness to it.

That there is the process of how I chose my 1st rifle. Thanks for everyone's opinion knowledge and advice

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Well done jrm234 you have made a great choice on your first rifle. And good to know some shops have staff with the knowledge to steer new shooters in the right direction.
Now just get out and use it as much as you can to get used to it.

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Originally Posted by Tommy

A sticky is one of the threads in each section permanently pinned to the top, ie what someone will see first. Usually reserved for crucial info, a well answered common question etc (example 4.1 on this definition https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sticky)

Right im with you now Tommy. Yeah it would be good for people like myself coming in to this. But I'm sure the more experienced fellas love throwingbaround there opinions and discussions on this topic as well.

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For the record it was the Outdoorsman Headquarters in Rotorua. TOP NOTCH service and advice

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