Thread: Economics of old trucks vs new trucks

I have been running a 94 HiLux Surf 3T diesel for 16 years and there is at least another 5 years in it, probably even more. I paid $16K for it with 65,000 K's and it is now up to 280,000. Total spent apart from tyres and regular maintenance is a new cylinder head (genuine Toyota for $800 in 2004) and a new conventional clutch for $600 when the original 'million piece' clutch gave out about 2008. It goes wherever I point it and there is some steep country around here. I have given it a bit of 'kiwi pinstriping' from the briar and crap and simply wouldn't be without it. I do my own servicing and it always gets a WOF. I wouldn't have a new or near new vehicle as they just lose too much money in the first few years you have it. I bought a brand-new truck once and it depreciated by 40% in the first 12 months - a bloody waste of money!

I've got a 2014 hilux sr5 brought it with 6000km on the clock had it for about 5 years. Its done about 115000kn now, all its had is tires and servicing. If i was to sell it now/trade its right now its depreciated $15000- $20000 over the five years. So about $3500 a year of trouble free motoring.
Yep a new truck you cant bush bash up tracks and when you park up it is in the back of your mind about in getting broken in to but even when i had older truck with good tires i always wonder if i was going to come back to a no wheels or broken windows. That's why i pay insurance for.
Also a modern truck you don't have to worry when you about to clock up thou kms thinking are we going to make it. Just jump in and go

7k for td27 nissan terrano with an auto..bought 5 years ago...costs me 500-1000 a year or about that every 2nd WOF..... tyres were $20 less than a grand for good muddies from tonies tyre service.
she does what we ask and goes places when we ask it to that surprise the hell out of me.
not got any power to spare when towing but Im not in a hurry.

There is no value in spending more than 12k on a 4wd unless it is a business vehicle that is used to make you $.
I have had a number of flash 4wds and all of them have been an absolute waste of money apart from my landcruiser which I will probably own forever.
I just bought a 12k hilux for our batch up north and it is awesome! Drives nicely and will probably go for ever. Also plenty of available parts and easy to fix.
My 2 cents

Also read up on the warranty fine print,
Most only state that there filters must be used, ( even tho they have Made in China on them)so you can supply your own oil (as long as it’s up to the spec)
Fit a catch tank , extra fuel filter if you want,
And away ya go

Have a mate who brought a new cheap ute, price the same as "good" second hand ute. Now 4 years old 90,000 km out of warranty, failed WOF. Every bush, shocks and half the ball joints failed. I have a old wagon for hunting etc, costs me far less to run and maintain than the new utes I owned and sold after 3-4 years which on average depreciated approx $4000 a year plus servicing. OK when you can claim back against the farm or business but not logical for a hunting come runaround.

I have always been interested in a mid to late 90's SWB Patrol (purely because its a slightly longer but still SWB) should the Mitsi Paj poo itself totally.
Are that a good reliable runner or should I run away !!

Good thread. I was thinking of getting a 2l Suzuki Vitara next as I Don't have the aptitude to decipher a good older diesel.
All this talk of fuel pump failures, shot injectors, shit transmission coolers and cracked heads have me flummoxed.
I like the previous model pajero but thought they may have become cheaper with the new challenger based one out

If you’re going to buy an old truck, buy a petrol.

Hands down the best option is a 1GR-FE V6 4.0 engined Prado, or even better for NZ use, the rare but findable Hilux with the same engine.

The old school high compression turbo diesels with 400,000km plus the extra couple of hundred thousand you don’t know about? Fuck that.

If like me you’ve lived a while in Aus and used the 1GR in a variety of vehicles, and have access to the fleet data for a hundred or so more, you’ll know why I’m talking it up. One of the better examples of their ruggedness were the railway company vehicles - Prados mostly - used to check the lines day in day out in QLD, NT, WA. They didn’t buy the diesel variant of these vehicles for a reason. If I told you the mileage these vehicles wracked up in three years you wouldn’t believe me. And only about 5% of those kilometres were on the black top, the rest rough as railway tracks.

Feel free to throw stones, but I’m right!

Originally Posted by Flyblown

If you’re going to buy an old truck, buy a petrol.

Hands down the best option is a 1GR-FE V6 4.0 engined Prado, or even better for NZ use, the rare but findable Hilux with the same engine.

The old school high compression turbo diesels with 400,000km plus the extra couple of hundred thousand you don’t know about? Fuck that.

If like me you’ve lived a while in Aus and used the 1GR in a variety of vehicles, and have access to the fleet data for a hundred or so more, you’ll know why I’m talking it up. One of the better examples of their ruggedness were the railway company vehicles - Prados mostly - used to check the lines day in day out in QLD, NT, WA. They didn’t buy the diesel variant of these vehicles for a reason. If I told you the mileage these vehicles wracked up in three years you wouldn’t believe me. And only about 5% of those kilometres were on the black top, the rest rough as railway tracks.

Feel free to throw stones, but I’m right!

They're an awesome motor, so reliable and cheap to service. If you're only doing a few thousand kms a year I'd have one a hilux with one of these motors hands down over a diesel variant

How many k's a year flyblown?

Originally Posted by stevodog

How many k's a year flyblown?

I did on average 40-45,000km p.a. I got the first 120series Prado with 80,000km on it and gave it back to the fleet manager with 255,000km. A typical 4 week holiday for us, from WA to Tas or the Vic High Country, was a 10,000km trip all up. I tried to buy that vehicle, but was turned down (the couldn’t allow the precedent unfortunately). It was a manual.

The second Prado was a 150series with the same engine, I only had it for 2 years from new, we did 39,000km in the first year, then my job changed and I gave it back when I left with 55,000km. The second one was an auto box.

Neither vehicle gave me a hint of trouble. None whatsoever. We went into some hell and gone places, especially in the first one.

We have a Highlander here that I bought for the wife new in Perth in 2009, the transverse version of the same engine (2GR-FE). It has done 120,000km, with two years on axle stands in storage, and in the entire time we have had it, the only non-consumable component I have had to change outside of the normal service schedule was the alarm sensor on the bonnet catch. I will run that vehicle until it stops, probably in about 20 years time!

The railway company vehicles, which I got to know reasonably well because the railway traversed our exploration tenements and we shared a camp, did on average half a million clicks in 3-4 years. Driving all day, every day, from camp to camp, keeping the lines clear, checking the signals, crossings, sidings, etc. Typical day in summer was 600-700km, sunrise to sunset, all rough as tracks. And they didn’t drive ‘em like yer grandma! Delivered as a bog standard Prado GRJ120R, they’d fit the normal MineSpec safety pack (internal roll bar, big roo bar, lights, UHF, external engine kill switch, cargo barrier, etc), snorkel, LT tyres, then off it went. Suspension was swapped out routinely every 60-70,000km. The Aussie models come with a 180L fuel tank standard, with the spare tyre on the back door.

The reason they ran petrols was (a) engine reliability on camp fuel, and the hard lessons learned with the early common rail diesel injectors and holed pistons; (b) no need for a fire suppression system (because no turbo), (c) proven bulletproof V6 block and heads, no history of running hot in summer temps, ease of maintenance. Minor service every 2 weeks, i.e. end of each swing, major service every 20,000km or so.

The railway guys trusted these vehicles and were very attached to them.

My neighbour runs an early Gen 7 Hilux with the same 4.0L engine (GGN26R model) that is probably a 2005 or 06, I go in that truck regularly, it is well over 400,000km and smooth as silk, a very very reliable vehicle.

I just looked, there’s one in TradeMe now so they are around.

The irony is that when I bought mine in 2014, I bought the diesel! Petrol was no longer available. New injectors on warranty at 42,000km due to bad outback fuel, that’s with a pre-filter as well as the factory filter... I still wish I had been able to buy a petrol for long term peace of mind.

Thanks, good to know

For the modern Diesel engine fuel quality is everything.
I own 7 Hilux’s of varying ages for my business vehicles and they average somewhere between 45K - 50k a year .
Over the last 15 years apart from normal servicing and tyres ( don’t get me started on tyres) my biggest costs have been clutch/transmission and one blown motor (315K on the clock) .
The transmission issues have been eliminated by changing over the fleet to automatic from manual ( clutches every 150K and syncro problems cost me thousands over the years ) .
The blown motor was purely bad fuel and now all utes run a secondary fuel filter which is an expense , but nothing like a new motor ( both cost or replacement and downtime)

I do like that these threads eventually turn into; Nissan/Toyota X with TD-KZ4x from 1978-1980 is the only vehicle that will last and everything else has some major design flaw that causes the vehicle to spontaneously combust after 300,000kms.

In reality a lot of vehicles will do stupid high miles and it's only from a decade of owners finding the common faults and things too look out for that they continue last.
IMO the most important thing with an older vehicle is rust, if you have rust forming in undesirable places then you are in for serious trouble.
Otherwise, short of a complete lemon if you have a mechanic that knows the vehicle well or you take not of the common pitfalls and do preventative maintenance you will likely be fine.

Even with Land Rovers the pinnacle of unreliability you get models like the Discovery 1 that when they first came out were breaking down every 15kms but after a few years of design updates and 10 years of private owners learning things the hard way.
You can read for hours online how the R380 gearbox and 300tdi is a piece of shit compared to the LT77 and 200tdi, yet 25 years on there are still plenty of vehicles on the road with stupid high mileage.

In my experience with Land Rovers has been that other peoples negligence or neglect is often what cost them big time, when they have been ignoring that rattle or clunk or warning message for too long and get surprised when they are stranded on the side of the road or hit with a massive repair bill.
When they don't adjust the electric park brake and ignore the warnings it throws up, or don't change the diff oil for 290,000kms, or ignore that horrendous clunk in the drive train is when things start getting expensive.