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Thread: New Hilux ad

  1. #46
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
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    I've had 3 Hilux-ishes. I like the forward control ones with a good load space and capacity. '84 2x4 2Y (1.8 petrol had a power band like a two stroke), '89 4x4 2L (2.4 diesel would get you anywhere eventually) and currently have a '95 AWD 1KZ (3.0T diesel that's pretty responsive) with just over 150,000 clicks. Every one a manual.
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

  2. #47
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
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    Have been driving the forward control Hilux's ever since I got my license in '80.
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Jack View Post
    Yet my Ranger is loaded to the gills with tools every day of the working week, pulls a trailer also loaded to the max and is then emptied and taken over the back at weekends
    Put a load of gear in the back of mine pre-mod, and I had to use a trolley jack to lift the trailer drawbar, fold the jockey wheel up out of the way to get enough downward travel to get the thing onto the hitch. And then add the trolley jack to the back of the ute in case I needed to take the trailer off...

    The bloody rear leaf springs were floopy, and went totally inverted with as little as a serious look at them. Leaf springs are funny like that, if they aren't set up like a smiley face and end up looking like a droopy frown so does the owner. Ford ended up doing a dealer aftermarket rear leaf setup, as I could basically only put a couple of bags of cement in the boot. F**king useless as a work truck to be fair, totally unusable. The problem I had then, is the heavy load rated rear leafs overpowered the stock shocks and front struts and caused the nose to dive. Ended up dangerous as the front end would wash out and follow the camber of the road, just about ended up in a firedam before I could stop the thing (front end sledging the whole time on full opposite lock to the slide, and boot in in 4wd).

    Had to fit aftermarket shocks and struts, started out with a full aftermarket front setup (springs and struts) but the aftermarket front springs were far to heavy a spring rate and drove like a forklift. Bloody good in a straight line, good on corners too but backbreaking. The struts had removable lower spring seat cups, so the factory springs went back on them with a 10mm spacer between the strut body and spring seats to increase the preload slightly on the factory springs. This gave in effect a 20mm lift at the front end, which allowed the front wheels to be adjusted back into the factory alignment specs which cured the washout and sledging issue at the front end. Also, as non-adjustable and under the max lift limits no suspension certs reqd.

    A total stuff around and took a long time as mixing and matching different brands of gear without a 'known' spring rate, and all in all didn't leave me the happiest with Ford dealer.

    But, what it did do was pleasant in the extreme, it made the trailer anti-sway, anti-slip, traction control, electronic diff locking and ABS systems come in a lot more gradually and progressively which makes the ute a heap more controllable in just about every situation I've had it in. It is actually a really nice, controllable and pleasant machine to operate now and I am really happy with the end result. I've been considering changing it out for a newer version Ranger but the new twin turbo's are total arse with heavy draggy trailers (I know of one that returns over 20L/100Km with a 3 ton boat on the back, mine does 10L/100Km same boat). Might as well get an ev to tow the boat if you're going to spew that much crap into the atmosphere (like most ev drivers using Huntly coal-fired power to charge their 'clean green death machine').
    Flyblown likes this.

  4. #49
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    www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3SFDa05v7Y
    Here's some hilux adds that will bring back memories
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=neRg9YCyJqc
    Last edited by 7mmwsm; 18-02-2021 at 09:18 PM.
    Overkill is still dead.

  5. #50
    Member Flyblown's Avatar
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    @Mauser308 that’s one of the best description of the problems trying to get the Ranger (and other brands) fit for hard work that I’ve read.

    The description of the change to handling dynamics is very salient indeed - there are that many guys out there that slap heavy springs onto the rear of the ute and haven’t a clue why the thing drives like a disabled crab afterwards. To be fair, there are dozens of dealers that wouldn’t have a clue either.

    In Australia, the GVM upgrade path solves a lot of this. The vehicle goes from the dealer to the suspension shop for a complete suspension replacement, with a kit that is certified by the transport authority as being made by an official “second stage manufacturer” and therefore complying with a long list of technical requirements. Lovells and Pedders are the two main companies certified to do this.

    The vehicle is then checked and signed off by an engineer, and only then registered - and the registration reflects the increased load capacity.

    What the vehicles owner gets is not just upgraded capacity but a carefully matched set of springs front and rear, so that driving dynamics are not compromised. GVM upgrades are not for the occasional heavy load carrier, as the vehicle will be over sprung for the majority of its use. For the vehicle to drive comfortably you need to have a constant load. I’m so used to driving a heavily sprung ute with light truck tires that I don’t notice the hard ride. I didn’t buy a ute for comfort anyway...

    The performance of the vehicle - heavily laden and towing - in the roughest toughest of conditions is very, very impressive. Whilst the GVM upgrade doesn’t exist in New Zealand, the approach to upgrading a vehicle’s suspension can be replicated using the same aftermarket parts, as they are available here.

    FWIW as a Hilux man, I’ve got my beady eye on how the factory suspension is performing on the current line-up. On the first batch of GUN26R (three of them), the rear leaf packs were buggered by 60,000km. This was from constant (over) loading and heavy towing by typically irresponsible cockies who have a work it ‘til it breaks mentality. The original springs were replaced with a standard set of springs on two of the vehicles, and the third got a full front and rear upgrade to my specs. By the time the vehicles were sold at three years, the two with the standard springs were very tired (140-150,000km). The third vehicle with the upgrade kit was fine.

    The three replacement vehicles (2020) all got upgraded spring kits before they left the dealer. These vehicles have already got 40,000km+ on them. You can feel and see the difference when the 3t trailers are hooked up - the vehicles sit level and don’t wallow around on the road. They don’t trash the rear tyres now, and the traction is much improved. The difference a well matched setup makes is worth every cent.
    madjon_ likes this.
    Just...say...the...word

  6. #51
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    Totally agree, also it's worth pointing out that pre-mod and empty (this with a 65Kg fibreglass canopy, tray liner, towbar and ute drawer circa 175Kg "empty load"), the Ranger was engaging the bump stops regularly and was basically sitting on the rubbers with any sort of load. This is totally unsafe with the interesting load dynamics ramming the bump stops into the chassis creates, and will potentially cause an early chassis failure through cracking with the modern lightweight steel chassis used today.

    With the spring kit I have fitted currently, the ute is stiff at empty (i carry my towing gear, some hand tools etc as standard) but add say five or six empty pallets or the equivalent and it's barely any stiffer than factory setup. You notice it with anything else removed though. One concern I had with the modded suspension is the unloaded dealer fitted rear springs offered approx. a 65MM lift over a similarly equipped bare ute - with the canopy etc permanently fitted it's a bit under 50mm. This is a 7-leaf pack so a very progressive spring rate when compared to the factory 3-leaf pack. Some of the heavy rated rear leaf packs only have 4 or 5 leafs plus overload spring for a 5 or 6 leaf pack, this gives you a lower 'lift' spec but a much smaller design payload range as each leaf tends to be of thicker construction and higher inherent flex resistance and shorter rebound period for a stiffer ride...
    Flyblown likes this.

  7. #52
    Member Flyblown's Avatar
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    Picture of the Lovell’s GVM upgrade rear leaf spring pack on a 2014 Hilux. Happen to be replacing the rear axle seals and bearing at the moment, so easy to see...

    Name:  5CC3C481-D7EA-4C48-8381-860128909680.jpeg
Views: 44
Size:  3.05 MB
    Just...say...the...word

  8. #53
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    Have you guys looked at air bags?
    My old man has had them on several flat deck Cruisers which, he overloads, and reckons they are great.
    Overkill is still dead.

  9. #54
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    Airbags are one of those “Marmite” upgrades, like fat tyres and EGR deletes. For every conversation that supports them there seems to be an equally vociferous conversation that says they are dangerous and risk damaging your vehicle.

    My view is that it is very much a case of “depends on application”. I think if you’re cruising the highway towing a caravan in an otherwise standard vehicle, then why not. But with what I do, I don’t want a pivot point on the chassis - created by the airbag - where no pivot point was designed by the manufacturer.

    Back in the day in Australia there were several quite high-profile cases of cracked chassis from use of airbags on heavily laden vehicles, in environments where axle articulation was maxed out. This was particularly problematic on the Nissan Patrols, otherwise mostly excellent vehicles. Our chief mechanic for the exploration vehicle fleet in WA flatly refused to fit airbags, and instead went with GVM upgrades, 12 ply narrow LT tyres, big bore oil shocks machined to the spring rates, and on-board compressors. Setting tyre pressure correctly for the conditions and load was just a normal part of driving - for a 200km trip into the camp you might stop to alter pressures four or five times, for sand, extreme corrugations, the old single lane bitumen strips and the sections of tyre wrecking rocks famous for destroying many an Outback trip for the unwary.

    Anyway I’m waffling. Airbags? Yeah, nah, maybe.
    Just...say...the...word

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyblown View Post
    Picture of the Lovellís GVM upgrade rear leaf spring pack on a 2014 Hilux. Happen to be replacing the rear axle seals and bearing at the moment, so easy to see...

    Attachment 160873
    That picture neatly sums up the point I made with leaf spring, leaf thickness - some aftermarket upgrade setups come with longer bolts and you simply clamp another couple of thicker leaf plates into the pack. It still doesn't sort the factory leaf that bolts in at either end, most aftermarket packs have an extra wrap on the second leaf down (military wrap) to support the bushing mounting at either end of the leaf pack. I wasn't very specific I realise with what my concern was with the lift, it was with the change to the drive shaft angle (quite a bit of a drop) and what it would do to the electronic diff and the unis and transfer case rear bearing and output shaft. So far no issues...


    The air bags can be a good solution - BUT there is a high risk of cracking the chassis if not set up correctly as there is no reinforce in the centre of the chassis where the airbag systems attach in. Same issue with slamming the bump stop repeatedly, there isn't much metal in there with the modern lighter weight chassis compared to the spring mounts at either end where the chassis is reinforced... Also, some of them require pressure adjustment which is a pain in the arse. Not strictly necessary unless you want a car type handling package and the odd ocassional ability to tow 3.5tons.

    Snap, Flyblown beat me by 6 mins...

 

 

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