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Thread: Acceptable group size at long range ?

  1. #1
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Acceptable group size at long range ?

    I have been wondering recently what Shooters think is an acceptable average 3 shot group size at long range in good conditions ?
    I'm talking about normalish LR rigs lying in a paddock etc with a bipod & rear bag, not 60lb railgun type rigs.
    For instance I have no idea what size the F class boys shoot as an average for various classes.
    It goes without saying that obviously less is more in this case.
    I don't want this to turn into your average internet BS pissing competition, with heaps of input from keyboard shooters

    I'm talking about 4-500 out to as far as you can shoot, on a reasonably regular basis.

    Is it 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1 moa ? or bigger ?

    I'm talking about shooting targets, steel, paper, rocks etc.

    And be honest, I know the records are under 2" at 1000 for various calibres.......

  2. #2
    Caretaker Wildman's Avatar
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    To what end? What question is on your mind?

  3. #3
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildman View Post
    To what end? What question is on your mind?
    Just wondering where I should be heading with group sizes.

    Is it feasible to be trying/striving the shoot 0.25 or what ever, moa groups or is anything under 1moa acceptable ?

    Is 0.25 or what ever, moa unrealistic/impossible.

    If it isn't that possible whats the point trying to achieve it unless you like pulling all your hair out, for me that wouldn't take long

    Just trying to get an idea what other shooters think....
    Last edited by Kiwi Greg; 26-02-2012 at 07:30 PM.

  4. #4
    R93
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    I reckon you should strive to match the groups that you shoot at your zero range, at all ranges. Therory of the group applys of course. I have shot a few groups at 700 and beyond that puts a smile on my face but so far havent managed it everytime. Usually my fault as well. Wrong Data inputs or forget to input/note a change the conditions dictate.
    I dont really worry as long as I try to do my bit and make the first one fall in my expected MPI.
    It was better when the Queen paid for me to muck around with heaps of ammo.

  5. #5
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    I'm more worried about getting the first shot where I want it than groups

  6. #6
    Caretaker Wildman's Avatar
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    I'm no long ranger by any means but maybe work backwards. What size target do you want to hit at what range? Mine would be hunting related. i.e. I would want to be able to hit deer at 500m consistently.

  7. #7
    Impure Lead Flinger
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimp View Post
    I'm more worried about getting the first shot where I want it than groups
    best thing ever to come off the end of gimps fingers....

    What sort of question is this greg? How do, can, will we accomadate the variables?

    I can and do regularly under 2" at 650m as you well know..

    And 2" groups at much further are and can often be pulled (as we well know)

    But the age old accuracy classification becomes much less desirable LR... for example MOA at 800m is pretty terrible (Moa at 100m is terrible)...

    0.25 MOA is starting to get pedantic and variably unrealistic SO I put in a top vote on Half 0.5MOA.. and we would have to be happy...
    tui_man2 and Mossie like this.

  8. #8
    Member crnkin's Avatar
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    Who cares when adam only shoots steel past 500 anyway.......

    And within that its only goats these days?

  9. #9
    Not just an internet expert... The Claw's Avatar
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    I think the answer is a combination of what gimp and wildman have said. An acceptable group size is consistantly smaller than the target you intend to hit. This will mean 1st round hits are a reality, not a possibility. If your rifle "is capable" of shooting further than you can group consistantly, then it means either (a) your current load is not accurate enough, or (b) you need more practice, and/or (c) you aren't capable of shooting further. Go back to (b) then...
    If it's not a first round hit you need to practice more

  10. #10
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldbob View Post

    0.25 MOA is starting to get pedantic and variably unrealistic SO I put in a top vote on Half 0.5MOA.. and we would have to be happy...
    Thats the sort of answer I was looking for

  11. #11
    Cutting Edge Bullets Terminator's Avatar
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    My vote to would go with .5 MOA and anything smaller is a bonus
    1000yds is fun, 1500yds is getting interesting, 2000yds is exciting, 2500yds will blow your mind

  12. #12
    Member Tui4Me's Avatar
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    You guys crack me up, what happened to all the sharp shooters out there with their 100 yard targets with 25 rounds through them?

    Think 0.25 MOA at 400+ is not realistic? You would have been better off using your 25 rounds for some load development at 500 yards rather than waste them at 100 yards. Seating depth and .5 powder +- is a good one that shows up well at 500.

    Forum member Mossies new Sendero is a good example of this, 3 shots into a 4" red dot at 500yards. It shot 1.25" And the wind was not the best for shooting. Next day he shot a deer at 550 I think it was. Perfect elevation.

    Does he need to waste 25 rounds to claim this accuracy? No Way! It's 500 yards, they are going to warm up and climb up the target!

    I think the better way would be to go to the range and spend short trips shooting x2 or x3 shots at the same target, at the same range but in different conditions. After a few trips you will soon find out what you and your rifle can do.

    As Gimp said 1st shots are the important thing. But you also want to make sure every time you do your 1st few shots they are nice and close together

    KiwiGreg, im sure many of your rifles are more than capable of 0.25 at range, after all it was your gun and your load that Mossie was using to do the job!
    Last edited by Tui4Me; 27-02-2012 at 12:49 PM.

  13. #13
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Put it this way Greg, Iv had two loads that would consistently shoot under half on a bad day. I dont use either.
    The loads i use run half to 3/4 and the other 3/4 to one.
    I use these because the pills suit the application and the others didn't.
    As you know I'm not really a long range shooter but even with this shot gun patterning could still hit B/Bs 1140 plate once I had wind-age sorted using hold over cos Id run out of up. Yep its a BIG plate. Would I try a shot on an animal at that not bloody likely
    I'm not really a long ranger as you know but the way I look at it is this.

    Animals= 6" inch group is max for me
    Rifles max range is the point at which velocity drops below reliable expansion regardless of energy (1000 foot pounds who came up with that?)
    So I have a theoretical max range of around 600y with the lowly .308 on a animal so i only need MOA any better is a bonus.
    Would I try it on an animal? Yep but only in perfect conditions nowhere near enough experience picking the wind.
    Steel how big is the plate, how far do you want to shoot? Does it even matter if your having fun and learning a bit?
    "Hunting and fishing" fucking over licenced firearms owners since ages ago.

  14. #14
    Cutting Edge Bullets Terminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tui4Me View Post
    You guys crack me up, what happened to all the sharp shooters out there with their 100 yard targets with 25 rounds through them?

    Think 0.25 MOA at 400+ is not realistic? You would have been better off using your 25 rounds for some load development at 500 yards rather than waste them at 100 yards. Seating depth and .5 powder +- is a good one that shows up well at 500.

    Forum member Mossies new Sendero is a good example of this, 3 shots into a 4" red dot at 500yards. It shot 1.25" And the wind was not the best for shooting. Next day he shot a deer at 550 I think it was. Perfect elevation.

    Does he need to waste 25 rounds to claim this accuracy? No Way! It's 500 yards, they are going to warm up and climb up the target!

    I think the better way would be to go to the range and spend short trips shooting x2 or x3 shots at the same target, at the same range but in different conditions. After a few trips you will soon find out what you and your rifle can do.

    As Gimp said 1st shots are the important thing. But you also want to make sure every time you do your 1st few shots they are nice and close together

    KiwiGreg, im sure many of your rifles are more than capable of 0.25 at range, after all it was your gun and your load that Mossie was using to do the job!


    Hand on heart dose your Rem 7mm mag average with more than one group .25MOA or is it more like .60 MOA
    baldbob likes this.
    1000yds is fun, 1500yds is getting interesting, 2000yds is exciting, 2500yds will blow your mind

  15. #15
    Member Tui4Me's Avatar
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    Your a hard man Don, we will see at the club shoot won't we?

    The accuracy of that barrel is the only thing stopping me screwing on a true flight at the moment, if it shot .60 it would be on there now!
    Last edited by Tui4Me; 27-02-2012 at 08:36 PM.

 

 

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