Thread: An accuracy challenge

Originally Posted by horihunter

I thought thepoint was to do 5 groups not just post one good group....

If you're referring to mine, that was a load development group, with the other 5 groups all being under 0.4

More a stroke of luck with a POS than the norm

Originally Posted by Spanners

If you're referring to mine, that was a load development group, with the other 5 groups all being under 0.4

More a stroke of luck with a POS than the norm

not yours on its own, everybody seems to be doing 1-2 group tests and posting them which is the complete opposite if what Gimp was talking about at the start of the thread

Tussock - I found the cheek resting heavy had most noticeable results in rifles with higher recoil, it seems to help make the recoil more uniform. Dont know the exact science but it works and is on its own makes a huge difference in shooting consistency

I have a strong feeling that the harder cheek weld is probably promoting better follow through, which makes a big difference to accuracy and consistency. I see a lot of shooters who seem to be in a big hurry to get the rifle off the shoulder and the next round chambered before the bullets hit the target ( figuratively speaking that is ).

Originally Posted by gimp

The magazines shoot 3-shot groups because it makes the rifles that they are trying to sell look better.

Regular barrels are thinner and heat up faster. The forth and 5th shot are more likely to be fliers than with a heavy varmint barrel. Thats why the tikka sporter is guaranteed to shoot 5 shots inside of 1 MOA at 100y instead of the 3 with a regular T3. I'm a recent convert over from competition Air rifling - the sporter is my first firearm, though 16 years ago i was in the Infantry. I've only put 40 rounds through it in total and you can see it has potential. It is still set with a heavy trigger too. I slapped a Falcon Menace 4-14 scope on it with Burris Zee rings. All very much basic extras you'll all agree.
Thats std Federal black tips on the left and Lapua in the middle and right (still managed to flick one somehow). Once i use up my 200 shiny Lapua factory loads and begin handloading I'll see if i can meet this 5 group 5 shot MOA test. Do i get a medal if i pass lol? or at least a discount coupon? I reckon all these 'sub MOA' rifles are exactly that, BUT... i'm personally only impressed if you do it prone or sitting. I'd be gob smacked if you did it offhand!!!


I'm still getting used to the rifle but i'm sure i could do much better with the Feds - i just ran out of them.

Why is it cool to shoot 5 little holes close together not that close to where your aiming?

Originally Posted by MEB

Why is it cool to shoot 5 little holes close together not that close to where your aiming?

you check the groups... the one that groups best then gets zeroed, every diffierent load will have a different POI so no point zeroing each load to shoot bulls, once sighted in its a waiste of ammo to check the group again...unless you want to prove something

So it's just to prove that your rifle shoots consistently, nothing actually to do with the shooter, or hunting. Kind of understand but don't see the fun in it myself.

I was over at Barnard Pecision seeing my mate Steve and getting some stuff sorted when I saw his flash looking 10 /22 .Steve started telling me it was pretty accurate -now semi autos and accuracy sometimes leaves a bit to be desired but he assured me this thing could drill 1 hole -yes thats right 1 hole .A little later I asked him from how far did he drill these single hole groups -he said 10 yards
Get a fck job lol

Originally Posted by MEB

So it's just to prove that your rifle shoots consistently, nothing actually to do with the shooter, or hunting. Kind of understand but don't see the fun in it myself.

Working up a load that suits your rifle and being able to shoot a group sub .5" isn't as easy as it sounds, You and your gear have to do their bit... but once you have it sorted it gives you confidence in your gear, then its up to you the shooter to do your part. Once I have the rifle sorted the practice I do is free standing at 250mm gongs at 100-200-300... well 300 I use a larger gong and that gives you hunting practice
Oh and most of my groups are shot off bipod in a way that can be done in the feild so its all practice and getting to know your rilfe

Originally Posted by leathel

Working up a load that suits your rifle and being able to shoot a group sub .5" isn't as easy as it sounds, You and your gear have to do their bit... but once you have it sorted it gives you confidence in your gear, then its up to you the shooter to do your part. Once I have the rifle sorted the practice I do is free standing at 250mm gongs at 100-200-300... well 300 I use a larger gong and that gives you hunting practice
Oh and most of my groups are shot off bipod in a way that can be done in the feild so its all practice and getting to know your rilfe

It seems to me that you guys who do this mostly have had a fair amount of time with rifles, hunting etc. I didn't get the group thing no where near the centre- that baffled me a tad. For me to go somewhere where I have access to 100 - 300m for target practise is the farm I shoot. And If I'm going there with my gun I'd rather shoot something for the pot - because I am still new to this hunting. But I am having a bit of fun with my .22 Anshutz and targets up the forestry on a Sunday arvo. If I could afford rounds for my centrefire I would practise with that a lot more. Currently all my rifles outshoot me.

I didn't mean to sound like I thought that pin hole accurate shooting you lot get up to was easy - far from it. I wish I had the time, money and skill to achieve that.

Originally Posted by Tussock

MOA off hand would be an interesting (and for me, close to impossible) challenge.

Heavy barrels dont heat up slower. The walk less as they heat. As each round adds the same amount of heat, regardless of which barrel its fired in, it would be fairer to say thin walled barrels cool down faster.

Umm. Where shall we start.

Assume the firing of a shot imparts energy to the barrel, and each shot imparts roughly the same energy (over simplified I know but a reasonable approximation). The steel has a certain heat capacity and we'll also assume that it same material is used in both a skinny hunting barrel and a heavy target barrel. The mass of the target barrel will be greater so the average temperature rise in the heavier barrel will be less per shot. Also the heat will travel reasonably quickly through the metal (being a good conductor) and the dissipation of heat will therefore be more dependent on the interface with the atmosphere, and the rate will normally be expressed as an amount of energy (ie speed) per given AREA per measure of temperature difference. Since the heavy barrel is wider it will have a greater surface area and hence dissipate the heat quicker, certainly to start with the hotter skinny barrel will loose energy faster, but the heavier barrel will always be a lower temperature.

Yes doing engineering I lived and breathed thermodynamics for months.

Originally Posted by MEB

So it's just to prove that your rifle shoots consistently, nothing actually to do with the shooter, or hunting. Kind of understand but don't see the fun in it myself.

Unless the rifle has a defect i'd say its more a case of the shooters personal skill (hence the fun). It goes to the core of marksmanship too. Being able to hit the same point everytime as opposed to the other guy. But you're kinda right - there's the other side which requires you to be able to hit random distances with one single shot. Also very hard to do. Personally i'm yet to find a boring sport involving firearms. Its all good to me

Being able to hit at random distances with a single shot is very, very difficult, especially as those distances increase in randomness.[ if that is a word]
I have seen esteemed members of this fine establishment miss first shots at under 300yrds with rifle and scopes combinations that will shoot 5 shots under an inch at 100.I have also seen these same guys take first shot kills out to 500.
To me, shooting good groups is basic, it must be done at a nominated range, mostly at 100yrds, to enable the shooter to have confidence in his/her ability and the ability of the rifle. Confidence in your rifle and your own ability, is to me at least 80% of the equation.
The harder 20% is reading the wind on longer shots.

G'Day Fella's,

Here is a 5 group shot with my .22-250AI.


I'm not sure what the rifle is capable of shooting, as it would need a better BR shooter than me, to do it!

Doh!
Homer

Gimp posted a challenge and so far in this post I've seen a few good groups but not 5 good groups, I have attached 6 targets all are 5 shot groups, 5 were shot at 100yds and 1 was shot at 200yds. All groups were measured independantly, all of the groups were shot outside with the wind doing what it does with bullets. Conditions were switchy and gusty.







So 0.192" + 0.242 + 0.211 +0.222 + 0.193" = 1.060" divide by 5 = 0.212"
0.396" divided by 2 (to get the 100 yd measurement) = 0.198"

1.060 + 0.198 = 1.258 divide by 6 (to get the aggregate of the 6 groups) = 0.2097"

Can this rifle do this all the time YES if I feed it the ammo it likes and I do MY part........the limiting factor is can "I" do this all the time "NO".......Kiwi