Thread: Firearms Registry Consultation Open

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

Looks like I have 4yrs and 11months to fill out the paperwork, I wonder how switch barrel firearms (blaser, etc) will be treated/registered?

4 years and 11 months - unless you do something like move house, or buy ammunition!

Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

It is what it is, so I am going to try be as constructive as possible.

The first statement they make - " The inclusion of licence holders’ personal and licence details in the Firearms Registry is a necessary first step before the Registry can begin recording details of the arms items you hold. These need to be recorded against the licence holder along with endorsements held."
This is incorrect. What they need is only your licence number. Your details are all linked in the police system anyway, and adding all your details makes your safety and privacy very vulnerable indeed. Anyone querying the firearms database needs to first access your FAL number via the Police computer system and then use your FAL number to see what firearms are registered. Does that make sense? Think of the missing name,
address and phone number as an additional line of defence.

Good points
I will submit this too and the point made by someone else about cyrillic characters eg on a Mosin


As with everyone else, it is an absolute boondoggle but that is not what this thread is about

Imagine the fun we could have if we chose to complete the forms written in our choice of language. I'm of Danish decent, might fill mine out using my original native language. Might slow the system down somewhat. Dette er min skydevaben ansogning, translation
this is my firearms application.

When filling out the submission form, make sure you tick the box so that your details are not provided to anyone seeking information under the Official Information Act. I can see this happening and people being very unhappy about it after the fact.

Don't agree with any of it but that aside.
I can see a gap in the process that when you do the initial submission of information or when changing address you must provide the capacity of your storage. No where is there a complimentary process for capturing an upgrade or addition to your storage capacity.
I also believe, despite reading the relevant legislation a few times, that the Arms Act is very vague in whether you need to inform the police when you change the security or add to your security arrangements in your current address.

While not related to the registry. I also have a substantial issue with the requirement to provide my primary care provider as a firearms licences holder. I consider this a significant breach of privacy. I also can see why they may want this information but firmly believe that it is counter productive in the intention. Any licence holder having a mental health, alcohol or drug issue is less likely to seek timely treatment if they are concerned that such seeking of treatment may impact their current and future ability to hold a firearms licence. I know these concerns align with similar concerns raised by the Privacy Commissioner which remain unresolved.

Originally Posted by muzza

I wonder what the outcome will be in no significant number of owners offer up the information - in others words , be like Canada and simply not comply?

The fact that macilwraith is involved in this does not fill me with confidence at all.

He's a manipulative arsehole

What if you are not registered with any Dr's? I asked in mine what they are going to do to get the gangs to comply

Originally Posted by small_caliber

Wouldn't guarantee that, it will come in next year and given all the expense is upfront it would be political suicide to can it.
Given that the period for a review is shorter than the deadline for all firearms to be registered my guess is that it will be here for 6 years plus at least.

Unless no one complies, and I can't see that happening.

They waste money on stupid shit all the time. Aside from that, I think that it will be US paying for it rather than them anyway.

I've referenced the previous leak in my submission: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/old-au...WHDBTH4JBPWCY/

Reported in the news 2 days ago, that nobody will be taken to task for leaving the firearms owners private details (which were consequently stolen) in an insecure and abandoned police building. No surprises there. And if the new registry gets hacked as a result of incompetence...?

Originally Posted by small_caliber

I wonder what will happen when people with dyslexia fill in the incorrect data?

Nothing will change ! haha

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

Reported in the news 2 days ago, that nobody will be taken to task for leaving the firearms owners private details (which were consequently stolen) in an insecure and abandoned police building. No surprises there. And if the new registry gets hacked as a result of incompetence...?

The registry will get hacked - not by incompetence - by deliberate illegal access.

There are about 11-12,000 police staff, sworn and unsworn.
Almost all are reliable trustworthy people.
That leaves a few dodgy ones who can't be trusted.
It will take only one dodgy untrustworthy person the breach the security of the registry. It will happen.

Consider the prosecutions for sworn and unsworn staff access to databases in an improper fashion.

The registry will be the shopping list that gangs will be using.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

The registry will get hacked - not by incompetence - by deliberate illegal access.

There are about 11-12,000 police staff, sworn and unsworn.
Almost all are reliable trustworthy people.
That leaves a few dodgy ones who can't be trusted.
It will take only one dodgy untrustworthy person the breach the security of the registry. It will happen.

Consider the prosecutions for sworn and unsworn staff access to databases in an improper fashion.

The registry will be the shopping list that gangs will be using.

Unfortunately I agree, this system will be breached, eventually, most likely in a way that involved someone with authorised access and therefore security of the database from outside access will be irrelevant.

The blame will be put on the individual who did the illegal sharing of information when this does happen but it will be a failure of the controls of the database which assumes compliance within Police and didn't account for the human factor in security design.

The risk is all on the people that hold firearms licences and not on Police at this point as we will be the ones put in danger from theft and potential assault from people trying to access firearms they know we possess.

I am not comforted by the platitudes provided about the security of the system. I want to see external judicial control on the access of the information which requires a request to access the information on a case by case basis rather than having uncontrolled access made by "authorised people".
At the very least if anyone accesses the information of anything in this registry I want internal accountability on a process on which this access is justified.

Having trained some people on government systems I know the people factor is the weakest link in the strongest designed systems. However the people typically have little information security awareness, training or knowledge and certainly by in large the technological competency of most users is abysmal.

The security of the database is definitely a concern. There was the recent Auckland police data theft, but that is chicken feed in term of risk compared to a breach of the incoming database.

The first breach we should look at is the buy-back one - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...uyback-website Yes, it was disappointing to the police, but their response was even more disappointing to anyone who takes their privacy and security that stems from that seriously!

If you are making a submission, think about this: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...o-gangs-jailed

Yes, they jailed him, but the information cannot be reeled back in once it has been given out.

The police association's own website (see https://www.policeassn.org.nz/news/c...-seeps-into-nz ) has this to say: "NOCG crime manager Detective Inspector Paul Newman says that while there’s little evidence of systemic corruption within New Zealand, it is increasingly at risk of being exploited by more sophisticated criminal groups.

“Organised crime at this level doesn’t exist without corruption,” he says.

Last year, police exposed baggage handlers at Auckland Airport who were being used by gangs to ensure that drugs brought in via aircraft avoided the normal security screening process. One of the baggage handlers had $250,000 stuffed into the roof cavity of his new home."

It is cases like this: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-...UAPVR5XTOUXZU/ that concern me - where police have access to something that has value to gangs, some, likely a very small minority, will cave and compromise the integrity of the system.

It only has to happen once.

There was a story about a police recruit with gang connections among their immediate family. I can't find a link to it though. Anyone help out here?


We haven't even touched on the other agencies that will have access to the database. If you have any examples of how people have been compromised, please post them. The stronger the message, the better for us.

Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

The security of the database is definitely a concern. There was the recent Auckland police data theft, but that is chicken feed in term of risk compared to a breach of the incoming database.

The first breach we should look at is the buy-back one - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...uyback-website Yes, it was disappointing to the police, but their response was even more disappointing to anyone who takes their privacy and security that stems from that seriously!

If you are making a submission, think about this: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...o-gangs-jailed

Yes, they jailed him, but the information cannot be reeled back in once it has been given out.

The police association's own website (see https://www.policeassn.org.nz/news/c...-seeps-into-nz ) has this to say: "NOCG crime manager Detective Inspector Paul Newman says that while there’s little evidence of systemic corruption within New Zealand, it is increasingly at risk of being exploited by more sophisticated criminal groups.

“Organised crime at this level doesn’t exist without corruption,” he says.

Last year, police exposed baggage handlers at Auckland Airport who were being used by gangs to ensure that drugs brought in via aircraft avoided the normal security screening process. One of the baggage handlers had $250,000 stuffed into the roof cavity of his new home."

It is cases like this: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-...UAPVR5XTOUXZU/ that concern me - where police have access to something that has value to gangs, some, likely a very small minority, will cave and compromise the integrity of the system.

It only has to happen once.

There was a story about a police recruit with gang connections among their immediate family. I can't find a link to it though. Anyone help out here?


We haven't even touched on the other agencies that will have access to the database. If you have any examples of how people have been compromised, please post them. The stronger the message, the better for us.

Google it; it's out there.