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Thread: New Firearms Licence Practical Training

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Although I agree with the practical handling component proposed, I can't say I can agree with compulsory club membership.

    Some of us have such limited time to even hunt or live too far as reasonable from any clubs, should we then be denied ability to own firearms/partake in hunting or shooting sports?

    To be perfectly honest there doesn't appear to be a real and immediate reason for the changes as it is, as stated before it's people that should already know better consistently featuring in incidents.

    However one "accident" is always one too many and safety should always be paramount. In saying that, the unlicensed clowns messing around with stolen firearms still won't care.
    @Preacher I agree
    No no no no.
    I do not want to see in any shape of form a compulsory membership for standard firearms ownership.
    Aussie has that and we do not want to go down that path no matter how safe it makes the police feel.
    It would be the thin end of the wedge. Next thing you know you would have to do so many shoots a year to stay compliant with your license like the pistols.
    You have to do that with every class of firearm in aussie unless you are super rural and don't have access to a shooting range.
    But in that case you also have ample opportunity and places to shoot which have to be on the proper form and in writing I may add.
    An example is that you have a tough few months with work weather etc and its hard enough to get out for a shot let alone a range.
    Next thing you know mr plod says you haven't done your shoots and you have to hand in your firearms to an armoury until you can do it.
    Fair enough it is that way with pistols, but you know that going in. And as Phil_H has suggested it does thin out the numbers somewhat. Guess what, it would be the same for longarms also in a bad way.
    Find some other way as courses every now and again but not compulsory membership.
    BTW I do agree clubs are awesome for learning the ropes, camaraderie etc. I sort of do clubs and I don't but that's just me.
    veitnamcam and Preacher like this.

  2. #17
    R93
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    At our meeting the term 'Fit and Proper' was brought up and how it seems pointless once deemed to be fit n proper and issued a licence why can that not suffice for any other endorsements.

    Mike agreed with the premise once you were deemed fit and proper to have an A it should be no different for any other endorsements. But did not give an explanation as to why you have to be vetted by the police again.





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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by R93 View Post
    At our meeting the term 'Fit and Proper' was brought up and how it seems pointless once deemed to be fit n proper and issued a licence why can that not suffice for any other endorsements.

    Mike agreed with the premise once you were deemed fit and proper to have an A it should be no different for any other endorsements. But did not give an explanation as to why you have to be vetted by the police again.





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    That is something I have wondered about often, if you are deemed "fit and proper" to hold A cat. firearms then you surely should only be subject to specific categories storage requirements.

    You are either fit and proper, or you are not.

    In regards to firearms there are not any other options. It's not a case of "he's good to own a hunting rifle but he cannot have a E. Cat. because he is a lil bit crazy"

    Sure, handguns and proper milspec stuff still require some kind of registration but really the people using ANY type of firearm to commit crime don't give a fuck.

    They just end up in my care eventually, hopefully before they kill someone, unfortunately that ain't usually the case.

    (P.s I am a Screw/Corrections Officer)
    mikee likes this.

  4. #19
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    My understanding of the practical content is that there wont be any live firing at all , it will be a demonstration of firearms handling from a safety point of view. How that will work for twenty applicants and one instructor in a two hour period remains to be seen....
    Cats have nine lives-which makes them ideal for experimentation...

  5. #20
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    I have been a member of several shooting and collecting clubs for well over 30 years now....but I still don't believe making this compulsory,that will only lead to more regulation down the track,to the detriment of all legal sports shooters.No thank you.
    mikee, Jexla and Preacher like this.

  6. #21
    R93
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    They need to change it or explain the obvious waste of time. (Fit and Proper.)

    Upgrade security for E
    Probation and regular requirements for B and to maintain it.
    Once finished probation and approved by club you get your B
    Would save money and streamline the system somewhere I am sure.

    As we all know crims don't give a shit about licences or endorsements.
    However those that do get mucked around and treat like criminals.

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by R93 View Post
    At our meeting the term 'Fit and Proper' was brought up and how it seems pointless once deemed to be fit n proper and issued a licence why can that not suffice for any other endorsements.

    Mike agreed with the premise once you were deemed fit and proper to have an A it should be no different for any other endorsements. But did not give an explanation as to why you have to be vetted by the police again.





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    I think its just another hurdle "they" added to the mix in order to make people give up on the process cause its too hard to own firearms some consider to more scarier and dangerouser than "Normal" firearms. All I really see coming from this process is 900 more hurdles get added so people say fuck it its too hard we wont bother and buy a bow or crossbow, speedy car, golf club etc etc instead
    stretch, Jexla and csmiffy like this.

  8. #23
    R93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikee View Post
    I think its just another hurdle "they" added to the mix in order to make people give up on the process cause its too hard to own firearms some consider to more scarier and dangerouser than "Normal" firearms. All I really see coming from this process is 900 more hurdles get added so people say fuck it its too hard we wont bother and buy a bow or crossbow, speedy car, golf club etc etc instead
    I think you're spot on mikee.
    The current process avoids common sense otherwise.

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I agree with what has been mentioned above around the benefits of belonging to a club, just not as a legal requirement.
    @Preacher

    Sure, but for just one year? I do agree with Phil_H's insightful comment re benefits of dodgy characters having to interact with sharp shooters for a year. Would perhaps avoid NZP granting permanent licenses to known gang members, methinks.

    @Phil_H

    "Osmosis"?!? Get with the programme. We shooters are all uneducated knuckle draggers full of toxic masculinity; we NEVER use big words like that.

    Also see you work with convicted offenders. Good on you. I was involved with Prison Fellowship myself for a number of years. Really disappointed at John Key for not keeping one of his election promises, to make all prisoners work (instead of atrophy). Hey, used a big word myself there. Drat.
    Guns don't kill people - drivers do.

  10. #25
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    Compulsory club membership - no way. We don't even have enough clubs/ranges in New Zealand.
    mikee, Ryan, stretch and 2 others like this.

  11. #26
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    @Beavis

    You do realise the gun haters would anyway never push for such an option. It would massively strengthen shooters voice to have us all in clubs. And the clubs would grow and multiply. To use an atom bomb analogy, we already have way beyond critical mass with 250,000 shooters, were just not brought together and so no significant fission occurs.
    Last edited by Cordite; 20-06-2018 at 08:22 PM.
    Guns don't kill people - drivers do.

  12. #27
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    Clutha Branch of the NZDA has already put forward a remit to conference to support the recommendation from police that membership of a valid club/organisation be a requirement of a Firearms License. Their reasoning is, its gonna happen cos "we've been told" so might as well support it. At last nights meeting, Mike was emphatic on several occasions that the Arms Act was not going to be changed, so where oh where did the NZDA get their info from? And it would be typical of the DA eh? Dont do enough real stuff to keep the membership coming, so lets get it by default and still do fuck all for the shooting community in NZ!
    Jexla likes this.

  13. #28
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    I just can't accept mandatory club membership. Even for only one year. The only time I get to shoot/hunt would be absorbed trying to maintain my FAL.

    Just doesn't seem like it would be of any real world benefit, or even fair to enforce club membership. By all means increase handling skills and general firearm knowledge at the point of application, but to be honest some of the shittest guys I have ever been around in regards to firearm safety are the 30+ years in NZDA. (Not a dig at NZDA either) or similar.

    Complacency is probably better addressed than we do currently.

    That is probably a much bigger issue in my eyes.
    mikee, Steve123, Jexla and 1 others like this.

  14. #29
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    If you take a step back and think about it, ask yourself, what problems am I trying to fix? I have been hearing people say things should be XYZ with nothing to really back it up. You should need an E cat for all semis, you need to be in a club, you need practical training, you shouldn't be allowed to hunt animals with your MSSA's - among other things.

    How many firearm homicides or hunting accidents do we really have per year? For the number of people who take part in shooting sports, it's bugger all. You need to be careful that you don't end up being a Turkey voting for Christmas, for lack of a better analogy. The last thing we want is over regulation and the need to justify every facet of what we do to some desk driver in Wellington.
    Sasquatch, Jexla, keneff and 1 others like this.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    The .22 needs the same safe handling as other kind of gun, really (no child's gun as it has ten times the power of a spring air rifle).
    I agree. There's a few videos on YouTube which demonstrate what a .22LR can do. Not a toy by any means.
    Steve123 likes this.

 

 

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