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Thread: New Firearms Licence Practical Training

  1. #31
    Member Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    @Beavis

    You do realise the gun haters would anyway never push for such an option. It would massively strengthen shooters voice to have us all in clubs. And the clubs would grow and multiply. To use an atom bomb analogy, we already have way beyond critical mass with 250,000 shooters, were just not brought together and so no significant fission occurs.
    @ Cordite, the mandatory club thing was implemented in Australia, these days the antis cry about it because they say in hindsight it was a mistake, because mandatory club membership has bolstered the gun lobby in terms of funding and numbers. You can't please these people.
    Cordite likes this.

  2. #32
    Member Steve123's Avatar
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    We only need to see Aus. as example, give an inch then more and more rights will be taken away.Semi's, then pumps, then levers, then ten shot mags for old 303's.
    Let's face it, while the average plod joins up to make a difference for public safety the Police Heirarchy has some major power and control issues.
    Jexla and csmiffy like this.

  3. #33
    Member mikee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post

    How many firearm homicides or hunting accidents do we really have per year? For the number of people who take part in shooting sports, it's bugger all. You need to be careful that you don't end up being a Turkey voting for Christmas, for lack of a better analogy. The last thing we want is over regulation and the need to justify every facet of what we do to some desk driver in Wellington.
    Um man with scary black gun (or similar) sells shit loads of newspapers or gets lots of viewers whereas man runs another man over while drunk does not even make page 3

    Also the Police are clever in that there are only 250K FAL holders and not a big group of voters in the grand scheme of things where as Drivers or Drinker (in some cases both) are a far bigger group of ..........................................voters and not worth the risk of pissing off, yet I would suspect the cost of injuries caused by both things are rather more then shooting accidents. Similar to the shit smokers get
    Steve123 and Cordite like this.

  4. #34
    Member Sasquatch's Avatar
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    We should not have mandatory club membership to own a FAL. It's impractical for the most part and pointless for alot of people. For us here in NZ firearm ownership is a right/privilege. Whichever way you look at it, they are one and the same.

    Don't lose track of our sovereignty guys, we are not the UK or Aussie where you might get a licence - Here you pay your fee, are deemed to be 'fit and proper' and then a license shall be issued.
    Steve123, Jexla, gonetropo and 1 others like this.

  5. #35
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    Licence holders are already proven to not be the problem.
    How will a bunch of extra rules achieve anything except invent criminals?

    The DSA already scares me the amount members shoot eachother. So i certainly don't want to be forced to be a member of that or similar.

    Create more farken stupid rules and you just create more farken criminals because people can't be arsed following dumb rules that don't address the problem.
    csmiffy likes this.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    If you take a step back and think about it, ask yourself, what problems am I trying to fix? I have been hearing people say things should be XYZ with nothing to really back it up. You should need an E cat for all semis, you need to be in a club, you need practical training, you shouldn't be allowed to hunt animals with your MSSA's - among other things.

    How many firearm homicides or hunting accidents do we really have per year? For the number of people who take part in shooting sports, it's bugger all. You need to be careful that you don't end up being a Turkey voting for Christmas, for lack of a better analogy. The last thing we want is over regulation and the need to justify every facet of what we do to some desk driver in Wellington.
    Preach, Brother! Consider how dangerous a set of Briscoes kitchen knives in the total scheme of things. Because let's be honest that is far more likely to kill someone than a firearm in this country. Or probably in almost every country.
    Jexla likes this.

  7. #37
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    @ Cordite, the mandatory club thing was implemented in Australia, these days the antis cry about it because they say in hindsight it was a mistake, because mandatory club membership has bolstered the gun lobby in terms of funding and numbers. You can't please these people.
    @Beavis,

    Aaaah, what a shame.
    Guns don't kill people - drivers do.

    The Hedgehog Preservation Society

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    @Beavis

    You do realise the gun haters would anyway never push for such an option. It would massively strengthen shooters voice to have us all in clubs. And the clubs would grow and multiply. To use an atom bomb analogy, we already have way beyond critical mass with 250,000 shooters, were just not brought together and so no significant fission occurs.
    In fact,they most certainly will push for this option....Australia has this policy,put in place by Johnny Howard along with his other 'reforms' back in 1996.....club membership helps to thin out the ranks as it costs time and money,effectively another requirement that would put many off holding a firearms license,especially occasional/casual shooters.Which is,of course,the reason the anti's would support this idea.
    csmiffy likes this.

  9. #39
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    I'd feel it would be a good trade off to have compulsory club membership,
    while having cops removed from administering the firearms act.
    Would be a fair trade, and the standard would go up.

    But I am also with the voices that complain that it is making something fun, a sport (no such thing as a "serious sport", as "sport" means "play"!) into something drudgery. I guess compulsory minimum attendance does to some extent poison the fun of going to the pistol range in the case of B-endorsed FAL holders. IMHO one might almost have more fun (read much less irritation and hassle) just being a member of a pistol range and only own/bring a CO2 pistol.

    In my profession we have to do continuing education, even logging it (as if we are not naturally predisposed to be bookworms, or we'd not be anywhere near our particular job!!). But the control freaks have managed to take a slice out of the natural fun inherent in reading and attending education events... Introduce that too for my FAL??? Guess what my answer might be.
    Guns don't kill people - drivers do.

    The Hedgehog Preservation Society

  10. #40
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    an ongoing course every 5-10 years fine by me.
    If you are in a club that should count too but then shoots attended would probably have to be counted and that's where I see an issue as then the compulsory number of shoots might creep in ala aussie.
    I don't like giving into them one bit. To many antis have too much input on this and they will take every small victory as another step forward until complete capitulation.
    Having the majority of politicians coming from urban areas and conservationist townies subscribing to the green mandate of gun control does us no favours

  11. #41
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    Geeze Iíve belonged to a few in my life, lot of them I didnít stay with because of safety and inexperience of others! The two I enjoy now are the BP club, bunch of great guys, very relaxed and controlled by a very experience ranger officer on range day! And shooting on the Taupo Deerstalkers range, you have to shoot with unknowns on the range, but you have to engage with them to ensure safety, awesome, great way to learn and teach!
    Cordite likes this.
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_H View Post
    I don't know that the practical component is going to be the answer to a safer shooting community - as jexla pointed out it is the 50+ community who seem to be over represented in firearm incidents in the bush - but it has to be a good start. My recent experience of obtaining a firearms licence after 25 years without one was rather sobering or be it frightening. I was in a room with possibly thirty people, 80 percent of them who I would be wary of being beside at a shooting booth at the fairground let alone being in the same piece of bush with hunting rifles. Just from some of the questions asked and the absolute lack or knowledge or experience of firearms displayed, it was rather frightening to think that these people, on getting the questions right and further with their vetting completed they could walk on down to a gunshop and purchase just about anything they please, within the relevant Cat. And I don't believe a lot of gunshops have any real interest in the purchaser other than selling them more goods.

    I'm a choosy old bugger when it comes to who I share my hunting area with. Thursday week ago I trekked 9km into the bush to work a small area that I had my eye on. I stopped by the hut close to the area and found that there were two people staying there over night and hunting in this same general area. From the way they had left the hut, plus the comments that had been placed in the hut logbook I decided to myself that I didn't want to be anywhere near where they were hunting. There was no mention in the logbook as to what there intentions were for that day other than they were out there somewhere. I debated it for a while and then decided to press onto the area that I had wanted to look at. I left my intentions in the logbook and carried on. Fifteen minutes later I came across the tracks of the other two hunters, they were obviously in the same immediate area. I just turned around and walked back out. I didn't choose to look at another area as I had left my intentions for the day with my family and didn't think it wise to change. At the end of that day I got to have a 20km walk which is always good exercise and I came back safely. This way at least there is going to be another day and another deer, hopefully in an area and circumstance that I would feel safe in hunting.

    A bit of a long winded deviation there, but I believe the new practical component to firearms licensing, while may not be perfect, is probably a step in the right direction. And I agree with the comment that Police may one day insist that as a part of having a licence one must belong to a club. And would that be a bad thing? For some years I used to own and shoot pistols and part of being a licensed pistol owner/shooter I had to belong to, and participate at an approved club. Definitely seemed to cut down the number of applicants that wanted to own pistols for purposes other than participating in the sport.
    With all the concern about firearms safety and accidents in other threads, I would like to add the comment that I have had a similar experience to Phil H. Run properly a comprehensive handling / field safety component to the Firearms Licence would make a big difference. I would feel a lot happier when out in the bush with the knowledge that any other hunters also in the bush whilst I am there have been well trained. But two young guys in a hut I slept in had me shaking my head - loading their rifles inside and - unbelievable - cycling ammo through their bolt actions to 'make sure it fed properly' yes this was inside the hut !!! had me clear out of the valley and wonder how they ever got licenced !! ( did shoot two deer above the track on the way out though )

 

 

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