Thread: OUCH

Man I would be honoured to have someone whos cares enough/actually gives a shit /knows what the plurry heck needs to be done in charge if I or any of my family needed to be looked after....been through a little glimpse of the pale side of it at Kensington in Timaru....staff were professional,but having a chap like yourself there sure wouldve been resuring.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Man I would be honoured to have someone whos cares enough/actually gives a shit /knows what the plurry heck needs to be done in charge if I or any of my family needed to be looked after....been through a little glimpse of the pale side of it at Kensington in Timaru....staff were professional,but having a chap like yourself there sure wouldve been resuring.

thanks for the kudos Micky -Im but one of many though who strive to do their best .dunno -at times i wonder if my westcoast irsh catholic upbringing means Im inclined to take life too seriously,but bugger it i took the job on I wear the gongs and I simply believe when someone comes to me with problems then Im bound to give of my best.if that means fighting off well meaning but misguided folk or know all fucktards to get us where we wanna be then so be it
my most important workplace mantra -three words ..people people people .....all else stems from that...alas alack modern NZ has isolated itself to its own misfortune

Originally Posted by ebf

Well if one of Kotuku's patients dies because he for instance decided to play poker all night instead of doing his rounds, or farm labourer dies because the boss made them use a tractor that he knew was unsafe, they would have the book thrown at them... No difference really.

The moment police detain someone, they become responsible for that person's wellbeing.

Correct, police have not got a hard and fast legal responsibility for citizens' wellbeing, but they do have a definite duty of care to people in their custody. Has happened before, diabetic with hypo smells of ketones, throwing himself around as confused, arrested and "smells like alcohol", thrown in a cell to sober up, wakes up dead.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Correct, police have not got a hard and fast legal responsibility for citizens' wellbeing, but they do have a definite duty of care to people in their custody. Has happened before, diabetic with hypo smells of ketones, throwing himself around as confused, arrested and "smells like alcohol", thrown in a cell to sober up, wakes up dead.

when you get quantity before quality ,when you get limited training in commonsense and when you have piss poor leadership structures ,the temptation to cut corners aka "familiarity breeds contempt" and a piss poor government to boot then you set up a very fertile environment for this sort of fuckup.
I have a colleague who is 99.9%certain to lose his nursing registration due to a idiotic fuckup he made as a senior member of the team in effect a shift manager.
id been in full scale restraints and shared many a tense situation with this guy in a forensic setting and elsewhere when the A team was called for -no fucking tasers pepper sprays remingtons glocks or that shit- nurses we use bare hands and a 2" 23g needle !
I happened across him and with all the decorum of a bailed boar sooled into him
he didnt say much but we did agree on one thing-what he did involved a staff member who was valued by us both-and he admitted he got a kick from it
"PRIZE CUNT" two very vulgar words but will forever be part of his personal CV
What did amaze me was his audacity to say he'd expected to see me ,as a lot of workmates actually shunned him(suprise suprise)and he thought hed get the shit kicked out of him.!
meh-matey brae a brainfart you made the bed you lay in the bastard and when ya kids ask "what happened dad" ,I hope you have the spine to tell em

Originally Posted by chainsaw

not sure we can make any comment until the facts are established in court. But I do feel for all involved on all sides. A pretty ugly situation.

STOP IT NOW!

This is the internet don't you know - how dare you let YOUR logic affront of MY outrage....

Originally Posted by Cordite

Correct, police have not got a hard and fast legal responsibility for citizens' wellbeing, but they do have a definite duty of care to people in their custody. Has happened before, diabetic with hypo smells of ketones, throwing himself around as confused, arrested and "smells like alcohol", thrown in a cell to sober up, wakes up dead.

well I beg to differ -in the last 5 years both manu kaua nd chch central have deployed a team of forensically trained very experienced psychiatric nurses in their watch houses 24/7/365 and these guys often do admission assements with recommendations as to care whilst in custody or even in CHCH cases immediate transfer to hillmorton hospital.
Excuse me but i find this use of "waking up dead" offensive in this particular case.

Quote...”have deployed a team of forensically trained very experienced psychiatric nurses in their watch houses 24/7/365 and these guys often do admission assements with recommendations as to care whilst in custody”

Q..would a “team” have been dispatched to Hawera???

Originally Posted by A330driver

Quote...”have deployed a team of forensically trained very experienced psychiatric nurses in their watch houses 24/7/365 and these guys often do admission assements with recommendations as to care whilst in custody”

Q..would a “team” have been dispatched to Hawera???

A.Very unlikely, psych services are stretched enormously as it is.

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

A.Very unlikely, psych services are stretched enormously as it is.

Not trying to be an arseface here mate,.....thanks for the reply,and you are totally correct,.....it was more of a sarcastic/facetious comment......
@kotuku,s posts highlight the massive issues we have here in kiwi with these issues,.....I have a good friend in the suicide prevention side,I cannot believe the stories he tells me...very sad indeed

it would not take too much even to have an unsworn member of police to sit outside a cell or observation cell if there are any doubts re a person in custody .eyeball mk1/earlugs mk1 still our most effective sensing tools .should that person become concerned or actually see any thing then alert duty staff pronto -act from there.
thre trend in mental health of course(due to UN socialist influence)is minimising seclusion so we have people within arms reach of persons of concern 24/7 till such time the situation reaches a level it can be dspinsed with.

Originally Posted by kotuku

it would not take too much even to have an unsworn member of police to sit outside a cell or observation cell if there are any doubts re a person in custody .eyeball mk1/earlugs mk1 still our most effective sensing tools .should that person become concerned or actually see any thing then alert duty staff pronto -act from there.
thre trend in mental health of course(due to UN socialist influence)is minimising seclusion so we have people within arms reach of persons of concern 24/7 till such time the situation reaches a level it can be dspinsed with.

I agree to a point but I bet the bean counters wouldn’t be happy paying for extra staff (sworn or not) to be on call everywhere throughout the country ‘just in case’.
And a mate of mine on call for psych services had to go 95+km to go to deal with somebody in the cells in some country cop shop, that left
nobody to deal with any other cases that could have cropped up.

"so mondern mental health aint shortland fucking street -its more trying to sortout the best deal for some poor bugger whilst fending off myriads of knowalls."

Kotuku, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your words. T'were I could have half your goodness. My wife would say "Good Heart".

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Whilst I have no wish to enter an argument over the death of anyone, I would like to make one observation.

Some, who would champion the rights of unlimited freedom, to have and do and be, whatsoever, they hold as dear, without any direction, control, censorship, moderation or other interference, are the first, it seems, to scream - blue murder (geddit?) - when the authorities, don't have the victim, under 24 hour, second by second, video and in person, surveillance with Police, medical staff, lawyers and ethical advisors in attendance .

Originally Posted by MarkN

"so mondern mental health aint shortland fucking street -its more trying to sortout the best deal for some poor bugger whilst fending off myriads of knowalls."

Kotuku, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your words. T'were I could have half your goodness. My wife would say "Good Heart".

---

Whilst I have no wish to enter an argument over the death of anyone, I would like to make one observation.

Some, who would champion the rights of unlimited freedom, to have and do and be, whatsoever, they hold as dear, without any direction, control, censorship, moderation or other interference, are the first, it seems, to scream - blue murder (geddit?) - when the authorities, don't have the victim, under 24 hour, second by second, video and in person, surveillance with Police, medical staff, lawyers and ethical advisors in attendance .

You are 100%right .

In fact within mental health law-"code of rights" -even the most acutely unwell person has the "RIGHT TO WITHDRAW CONSENT TO TREATMENT AT ANY TIME" and normally aint nowt we can do about it .
However(and its a decision made at a much higher level than me) this can be overridden in extenuating circumstances -but that decision requires precise documentation for reasons previously explained.
'Persons committed to psychiatric hospitals have full legal rights we even have a lawyer "District Inspector' on call 24/7/365 free of charge for them and they can apply to have any lawyer represent them in legal hearings re status at NO COST TO THEMSELVES(usually under the stewardship of District inspector in 1st instance)
That lawyer/DI can go anywhere speak to any staff or sight any documents -to hinder them is a sackable offence under law!


Only 2 revocations can be done -removal of Drivers License by Responsible Clinician (doc in charge) for duration of committed status- upon same lapsing and provided persons skills assessed as competent application made to secretary LTSA to reinstate .
The other is FAL-ive been involved in 3x revokations ,alas in one case a family member got to police first and later the person concerned suicided by firearm,as did another though we'd permanently revoked his (MO-12g shell in a bit of galvanised pipe in vice with hammer and punch to fire the round)-that gives new meaning to creativity in its darkest sense.

legal wise my bugbear is its(REVOKE FAL) not enshrined within the mental health act unlike DL

Psychiatry is a fraud -one L Ron Hubbard and his "church of scientology" has this as a basic tenet of their philosophy as they assume mental illness is a non starter full stop. they are but one of many who for various reasons subscribe to this POV.

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

A.Very unlikely, psych services are stretched enormously as it is.

Very stretched where police can be waiting for hours until a Crisis Assessment Team (CAT) shows up.

Also... if the person in police custody is drunk or under the influence of drugs then they don't wanna know until that person has sobered up which is understandable.

I feel for these officers as its a real shit sandwich either way you look but police do have an obligation of care to any person in their custody but details about this incident are very vague.

There have been previous deaths with people in police custody, not to mention people who have been imprisoned as well as those admitted to a psychiatric hospital.

The security cameras at the station and the log records of people checked throughout the night while held in custody will likely tell the real story, not the media.