Thread: Newbie: Suggestions for first binoculars?

Thanks Ryan. Your reply gels with me a lot! Getting equipment that is reasonably priced and popular hence easily resaleable if need be fits with what I was thinking.

There’s two second hand Savage 270 wsms on TM at the moment for around 700 (I.e. half the price of a Tikka) - they will do the trick, and will likely still be worth 6-700 in a couple of years time. Reloaders have Sauer 100 rem mags for tikka money too, i’d be looking at them.

Ryan is right - you can easily get lost, but the more sorted you get to start the cheaper it will be in the long run. Everyone has their likes and dislikes - I have to confess I’m a little allergic to tikkas - or anything where the action doesn’t fit the cartridge (not an issue in rem mag).

Back to binos - check out the “birder” reviews - those guys are binoc mad, but also good at sniffing out where the bargains lie. Vanguard seem to get a good rap for the $$

It can get confusing as you are asking people for their own opinion on products and everyone likes different things. The idea is to get you thinking. If you have your heart set on certain products like tikka then go with your gut. I'm personally not a fan of buying anything hunting related or anything else that is purchased for it's resale or popularity value. But that is just me. If you are that way inclined then do it. It is an exciting journey whether you are starting out or up grading. Don't let opinions take that excitement away from you. That's all any of us are doing is offering our own personal opinion. Good luck and enjoy the journey.

I recently bought a Sauer 100 7mmRM, as mentioned a couple of posts back, and the bro has a Tikka 300WSM, I prefer mine. There's a deal on them at the moment, the Cerakote version(came out just after I got my blued one), with a Zeiss(Terra, their entry level scope), rings, spare mag, and I think a bipod, for 2k. It's an entry level rifle, but its German quality, and there's no reason I can see for me to ever sell it, it should do me a good few years.
My rangefinder is a SNDWAY off Aliexpress for approx 135$ delivered, nothing wrong with it, works fine.
Good luck with your decision making, and hunting.

Originally Posted by Daithi

My rangefinder is a SNDWAY off Aliexpress for approx 135$ delivered, nothing wrong with it, works fine.

One of these? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SNDW...3-ac9d3546cdce

Thanks all. Awesome helpful replies! I was concerned all suggestions would be “spend more & you must have this as very minimum” but the replies generally have been “spend right”.
I’ll spend some time in the stores trying for a good fitting rifle before seeking used or new. Had thought tikka as popular usually becomes popular because it’s proven, but I agree sometimes popular can be due to price, marketing, etc and not value or performance

Originally Posted by Daithi

I recently bought a Sauer 100 7mmRM, as mentioned a couple of posts back, and the bro has a Tikka 300WSM, I prefer mine. There's a deal on them at the moment, the Cerakote version(came out just after I got my blued one), with a Zeiss(Terra, their entry level scope), rings, spare mag, and I think a bipod, for 2k. It's an entry level rifle, but its German quality, and there's no reason I can see for me to ever sell it, it should do me a good few years.
My rangefinder is a SNDWAY off Aliexpress for approx 135$ delivered, nothing wrong with it, works fine.
Good luck with your decision making, and hunting.

Will check them out & particularly if fits me. I’m 172cm so not the biggest person but do have long arms which might be helpful

The range finder hint is great! I’ve brought a lot of misc stuff, mostly minor tools & electrical/electronics, from AliExpress and it’s all been fine. Had wondered about them for rangefinder as they pricy in the gun stores

Another idea:

If you're starting out and you've got 2-3k to spend, I'd say just splurge as much as you can on a pair of second-hand top tier binos (Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski). Even if it eats up most of your budget. You can still 'hunt' (albeit not kill) with optics, and you'll be able to scout areas, glass them, and learn about your quarry. This will pay devidends in the longrun. Your binos will last forever, so they're a piece of gear you'd do well not to skimp on.

Then when your budget allows for it, pick up a rifle of your choosing. And by then, you would have done so much scouting and glassing that you'll have a good idea where all the animals are.

This approach may take some dicipline. I know that it's super tempting to run out and get a rifle once you've obtained your FAL...but to cut corners on your optics, just to spend extra on an overpriced rifle - it's back to front in my opinion.

At least this way you'll be able to save for quality kit but still get out and observe/stalk animals in the meantime.

^^^ @Frodo hunts deer in the nude with a stick and a pair of swaro EL's



True story

Understood. The advice makes sense. My concern (& why I'm asking advice) is if I spend too much on binos the leisurely rate my budget comes at the animals I'd see via good binos may well have moved onto other areas well before I get the funds for the rifle. Hahaha.

Originally Posted by uk_exile

Understood. The advice makes sense. My concern (& why I'm asking advice) is if I spend too much on binos the leisurely rate my budget comes at the animals I'd see via good binos may well have moved onto other areas well before I get the funds for the rifle. Hahaha.

That's why glassing is so important! Because through repeated observation you'll begin to realize they don't tend to move around as much as you may think! Deer are creatures of habit and follow patterns.

But if you shoot the first few animals you see, they won't be able to answer any of your questions.

There's no such thing as spending too much on glass. Trust me. Go to your local store and have a look through some low end, mid range, and high end models. Even during the day you'll pick up on some major differences.

Originally Posted by Frodo

That's why glassing is so important! Because through repeated observation you'll begin to realize they don't tend to move around as much as you may think! Deer are creatures of habit and follow patterns.
But if you shoot the first few animals you see, they won't be able to answer any of your questions.
There's no such thing as spending too much on glass. Trust me. Go to your local store and have a look through some low end, mid range, and high end models. Even during the day you'll pick up on some major differences.

Repeated, sustained observation requires comfortable binoculars.

Comfortable binoculars have a bright image, not too much perceptible shake, and are not too heavy.

Higher magnification like 10x requires thicker, heavier glass for their lenses to bend light that much, which steals some light. They have a smaller exit pupil which can punish at dusk, when our own pupils may dilate to 5+mm (young eyes 7-8mm!) but the 10x42s will only feed them with a cone of light of 4.2mm. And they have perceptible shake due to the magnification which makes prolonged (handheld) observation a strain.

Don't go above 8x magnification for a combination of all the above reasons.

This puts me squarely in the cheapskate category of course, but the considerations above are basic physics so can't be gotten around by manufacturing a 10x42 to a higher spec. The glass will still be thicker to gain that magnification, the magnification will still cause image shake, and its exit pupil (EP) will remain limited to 4.2mm.

A little table to show you I can do division on a calculator, though the easy ones I did in my head:

10 x 50 EP 5.0mm
10 x 42 EP 4.2mm
8 x 50 EP 6.25mm
8 x 42 EP 5.25 mm
7 x 50 EP 7.14mm
7 x 40 EP 5.7mm
7 x 35 EP 5.0mm
6 x 30 EP 5.0mm

Disclaimer: the best binoculars are the ones you have on your person when you need them, someone else on this forum said that.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Repeated, sustained observation requires comfortable binoculars.

Comfortable binoculars have a bright image, not too much perceptible shake, and are not too heavy.

Higher magnification like 10x requires thicker, heavier glass for their lenses to bend light that much, which steals some light. They have a smaller exit pupil which can punish at dusk, when our own pupils may dilate to 5+mm (young eyes 7-8mm!) but the 10x42s will only feed them with a cone of light of 4.2mm. And they have perceptible shake due to the magnification which makes prolonged (handheld) observation a strain.

Don't go above 8x magnification for a combination of all the above reasons.

This puts me squarely in the cheapskate category of course, but the considerations above are basic physics so can't be gotten around by manufacturing a 10x42 to a higher spec. The glass will still be thicker to gain that magnification, the magnification will still cause image shake, and its exit pupil (EP) will remain limited to 4.2mm.

A little table to show you I can do division on a calculator, though the easy ones I did in my head:

10 x 50 EP 5.0mm
10 x 42 EP 4.2mm
8 x 50 EP 6.25mm
8 x 42 EP 5.25 mm
7 x 50 EP 7.14mm
7 x 40 EP 5.7mm
7 x 35 EP 5.0mm
6 x 30 EP 5.0mm

Disclaimer: the best binoculars are the ones you have on your person when you need them, someone else on this forum said that.

Now to turn your argument on its head.

The light that enters the lens is determined by the objective lens size and the losses are pretty much the same for an 8x or 10x magnification, the difference in lens thickness is very little. So the exit pupil might be smaller, but it will be of higher intensity, so the amount of light getting through is the same. Now if your 8x42's have an exit pupil of 5.25 and your eyes at night have a 5mm pupil then you will get losses going into your eyes of at least 1- (5²/5.25²) = 9.3% and more if your line of sight is out by more than 0.125mm from the centre. With 10x42's with a exit pupil of 4.2mm your eye need to be more than 0.4mm from the centre of the exit pupil any light is lost.

Physics!

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Now to turn your argument on its head.

The light that enters the lens is determined by the objective lens size and the losses are pretty much the same for an 8x or 10x magnification, the difference in lens thickness is very little. So the exit pupil might be smaller, but it will be of higher intensity, so the amount of light getting through is the same. Now if your 8x42's have an exit pupil of 5.25 and your eyes at night have a 5mm pupil then you will get losses going into your eyes of at least 1- (5²/5.25²) = 9.3% and more if your line of sight is out by more than 0.125mm from the centre. With 10x42's with a exit pupil of 4.2mm your eye need to be more than 0.4mm from the centre of the exit pupil any light is lost. Physics!

Physics indeed.

In daylight you CAN use say a ridiculously magnifying binocular or monocular of say 25x30, as even with an exit pupil of 30/25 = 1.2mm you will get enough light to see clearly. But what a strain to find that small keyhole of light! Not for prolonged glassing, but fine for just checking something out.

Similarly a pair of 7x50s are comfy to use on the bridge of a ship (no lugging them over hills!) even for a middle aged man with a max pupil diameter of ~5mm. He cannot utilise the 7x50's large exit pupil of 7.14mm, it's just that he can just lift them to his eyes and look without manoeuvring into precise eye alignment. Thus a pair of binos with larger-than-required exit pupils are an advantage not just in very low light, but throughout the day.

Lightness, large exit pupil and wide field of view wins the day every time, but they just don't not go with higher magnification. Can't get both in the same package. Impossible physics in one package.

The solution of carrying some light 7x35s and then using your 3-15x rifle scope for checking out an occasional very distant object works as far as the physics are concerned, with no weight penalty. But it will grate some to use a gun mounted optic for other than aiming though, for obvious reasons of potentially pointing their rifle in the direction of some unwitting passer by, even if unloaded and at a far distance. One might say it dilutes the principle of always pointing a gun in a safe direction. Also, the idea does not work if your rifle scope is a fixed 4x or similar.

The other way to approach it is to use Galilean optics for checking far distant objects. So, say carry a 7x35 bino, and for the occasional far spotting have an extendable type telescope, say 15x or 25x. They're light, compact and reach much further out than any 10x42 or 12x50. But with a narrow FOV they are mainly useful for checking out a specific object, and must be supported as they are usually light weight.

I'd not really go as far as the very heroic monocular (or the Mills bombs) in the kit here ...but the idea is the same: (-:

@uk_exile similar to one in your link, I got the 1000 model

Do a search on here for SNDWAY and read the thread started by Dougie