Thread: TV3 & Guncity mistake

Better not let the courier touch it then. Possibly no license. What was once a usable system is now a cluster fuck. Nobody at the station in my town wants to know about a mail order form unless the AO is in. I usually never have time to see him because work, and usually when I do make time, he's not there.

When I finally got a form done for some ammo, after over a week of fucking around, I found it interesting that they wanted to know what kind of rifle I'm gonna use it in. Thought it was a bit of a pointless question.

Originally Posted by Beavis

Better not let the courier touch it then. Possibly no license.

The Arms Act states that couriers/freight firms do not need a firearms licence to carry firearms/ammunition.

Just goit this through nice to see some of them are on or side!

Westminster Hall debate on "usage of lead shot in ammunition"

On Tuesday Gerald Jones, the Labour MP for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, secured a one hour Westminster Hall debate on 'usage of lead shot in ammunition'. Even the title of this discussion was odd in that it seemed to exclude discussion of lead bullets, but given that Mr Jones had never previously shown any interest in shooting it may just have been a misunderstanding.

He read out his opening statement from a script which sounded remarkably similar to the public statements made by the RSPB and Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust. Indeed it was noticeable that there were more staff from those organisations in attendance than the three MPs (including Mr Jones) who were willing to argue for further restrictions on lead ammunition. As I have said before it is very sad that two organisations that do so much brilliant conservation work give such priority to a campaign which, is at least in part, clearly motivated by an antipathy to shooting as a whole.

A number of MPs, led by our own Chairman Simon Hart argued forcibly that there was no justification for a ban on lead ammunition. Simon declared an unusual interest in the debate by stating the fact that he was “probably the only Member who has been shot by a lead cartridge… It was about 35 years ago and I still carry 20 lead pellets in my left knee"' he added that "colleagues will judge whether that has affected my physical or mental state.”

Charles Walker MP stated that “tungsten, bismuth and hevi-shot cost five to seven times as much as lead. A significant part of most people’s shooting budget.”

Jim Shannon MP brought his experience shooting and wildfowling in Northern Ireland to the debate arguing that attempts to ban lead ammunition are “unjust and unfair and highlight the way in which science can be used and manipulated to suit a political agenda”.

Rishi Sunak MP and Geoffrey Clifton-Brown MP argued that evidence on the impact of lead ammunition in the UK has failed to pass rigorous academic scrutiny and the risks have been exaggerated. They also stated that a ban on lead would have serious implications for the gun trade, the rural economy and the natural environment

Alex Cunningham MP, a shadow Defra Minister, was forced to concede that there was no evidence in the UK of any premature death caused by lead ammunition which prompted Simon Hart to suggest that “unless he [Cunningham] can come up with that evidence, he is doing nothing more than mischief making”.

George Eustice MP responded for the Government and stated that since half of the Lead Ammunition Group members had resigned “we are therefore in a position in which we have no expert consensus about the impact of lead ammunition on wildlife or human health”, but did acknowledge that current compliance levels with existing legislation were disappointing.

This is not a matter of debate and is something that all speakers agreed on. Adherence with the current restrictions for shooting wildfowl and shooting over wetlands is non-negotiable. Using lead shot in contradiction of the regulations is not only environmentally damaging, but also risks the future use of lead ammunition for all shooting. None of us should think that it is acceptable either personally, or from those who we shoot with.

AOs make their own rules! Shit it's different all over the country

If the use of the Police "Arms Office" stamp was an absolute must in every police district, then these forgeries would be picked up very quickly. I thought that this stamp WAS standard procedure everywhere in NZ but from a lot of comments here it obviously isn't!!!! Was this the loophole that the feds have supposedly plugged?????
We all get denigrated as naughty firearm owners because the police can't run a piss up in a brewery OR are the topdogs at police HQ deliberately allowing a fairly fail safe system to fail????

I would never have actioned a mail order form that didn't have the Arms Office stamp in the bottom right hand corner. Now people wishing to do a mail order transaction for a firearm or ammo have to coordinate their available time at work etc to meet the possibility of someone actually being in an Arms Office when they want a mail order form actioned!!!!! How many non-event visits to the copshop would that take????? & who can just get in their vehicle & leave work or the farm or wherever & front off down to an arms office????? After 2 or 3 failed visits the boss may well get a bit testy eh?????

Who is being put thru the hoops and seriously inconvenienced because of the police failing to have a standardised procedure right throughout NZ?????

I'll bet that the police "Arms Manual" lays out the procedure very clearly but some arms offices fail to follow their own directions & guess who gets the shitty end of the stick???? Good old law abiding forearm owners, AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

HdPA and others must be getting great glee from some of the comments on this open forum. There will be a fair few "I told you so's" and sage nodding of heads in the media.

Originally Posted by zimmer

HdPA and others must be getting great glee from some of the comments on this open forum.

Are you crediting them with the ability to read and research?

Originally Posted by zimmer

HdPA and others must be getting great glee from some of the comments on this open forum. There will be a fair few "I told you so's" and sage nodding of heads in the media.

Zimmer me old trout, I think those wankers at TV3 will be shitting themselves not being quite sure whether "dear hubby" will get the heat taken off them or not being too sure whether GC will proceed with a private prosecution of the whole pack of the conniving bastards!!!!!

If I was them I'd be getting my toothbrush & jammies ready for quite a few months in the slammer!!!!!

Let's hope the hua's read THAT bit,eh????

Originally Posted by top gun

Zimmer me old trout, I think those wankers at TV3 will be shitting themselves not being quite sure whether "dear hubby" will get the heat taken off them or not being too sure whether GC will proceed with a private prosecution of the whole pack of the conniving bastards!!!!!

If I was them I'd be getting my toothbrush & jammies ready for quite a few months in the slammer!!!!!

Let's hope the hua's read THAT bit,eh????

We can only hope but in this case I am fearfully certain there will be nothing nasty happen to them, but I hope I am wrong...
Maybe we can all wish it as a Christmas present for us. Better than the undies and singlets I normally get.

Zim,
I'm personally hoping that the cops fudge prosecuting them for whatever reasons ( political interference like the Urewera terrorist training camps) or whatever.
If GC take a private prosecution then you can be sure that their "payback" will result in the whole slimy team of them, from O'Connor to the TV3 bosses, will be named & shamed & either booked into Mt.Eden or fined many zillions of $'s along with huge "costs awarded"!!!!!!

That's what I've been kneeling beside my bed & praying for each night!!!! Hopefully everyone of you law abiding chaps & chapesses are doing the same.

The power of group positive thought works, believe me. I've helped a couple of negative karma cases here in Rottenrua lately, VERY satisfying to see arseholes finally get their beans. & I'm not really a vindictive person!!!!

Originally Posted by top gun

If the use of the Police "Arms Office" stamp was an absolute must in every police district, then these forgeries would be picked up very quickly.

Surely they could just forge the stamp if they were so inclined.

Originally Posted by top gun

I'll bet that the police "Arms Manual" lays out the procedure very clearly but some arms offices fail to follow their own directions & guess who gets the shitty end of the stick???? Good old law abiding forearm owners, AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

Nope. It just says that the form should be "endorsed' by a member of the Police. Which can include just signing it.

There never has been any legal requirement for a Police seal or stamp on any mail order form.

7.14 Mail Order Sales of Firearms and Ammunition.
Section 43A, Arms Act 1983 creates an offence to sell firearms or ammunition by “mail order” except pursuant to a written order signed by the purchaser and endorsed by Police that the member of Police has inspected their licence, and that they are fit and proper to purchase that firearm or ammunition.

Police Arms Manual 2002

I have sold two guns by mail order in the last week and neither form had a Police station stamp on it, and as Koshogi rightly pointed out, there is no requirement for one. In both instances they were also sent by the purchaser rather than directly from the Police. Everything is back to normal it would appear.

Originally Posted by gundoc

I have sold two guns by mail order in the last week and neither form had a Police station stamp on it, and as Koshogi rightly pointed out, there is no requirement for one. In both instances they were also sent by the purchaser rather than directly from the Police. Everything is back to normal it would appear.

Are you serious!?!

Edit: I seriously suggest you call your local cop shop or go see them and check those forms are legit. There's no way a cop would sign the form and let it go out those doors now...

Originally Posted by Jexla

Are you serious!?!

Edit: I seriously suggest you call your local cop shop or go see them and check those forms are legit. There's no way a cop would sign the form and let it go out those doors now...

Yes, I checked and they were kosher. One came with a police business card and I rang the station then his cell phone to check, the other was confirmed by the station. One was Wellington, the other a small station.

It is important to note that although the Police 'policy' may have changed, the law has not. Consequently any Police officer may check the applicants licence and sign the form.

Originally Posted by gundoc

Yes, I checked and they were kosher. One came with a police business card and I rang the station then his cell phone to check, the other was confirmed by the station. One was Wellington, the other a small station.

It is important to note that although the Police 'policy' may have changed, the law has not. Consequently any Police officer may check the applicants licence and sign the form.

I'm WELL aware, but when I done my form they took it and signed it and kept it (not much I could do about that) and then it went to my AO who then forwarded it to the seller after the AO done their whatever.
I expected this to be the same all over the country after what has happened and am very surprised to see it is not.
Also aware of others who have had the same, so thought it was very out of character for your buyers Police stations to not do the same, which would naturally ring alarm bells.


Maca:
Our AO's used to try the same thing before this even happened, you need to talk to them and explain to them that they need to inform the people who are on duty at the watch house need to know that they are required to fill these forms out and cannot say that only the AO will.
We no longer have this issue.