Thread: TV3 & Guncity mistake

Ask "are you a sworn officer?" yes "you are legally required to sign this form then " good idea or not?

Extract from the minutes of the Firearms Community Advisory Forum meeting held 3 Dec.


INTERNET FIREARMS SALES A review of ‘online sales’ was started approximately 1 month prior to the media attention created by Heather du Plessis-Allan and her purchase with a mail order form of a firearm without a firearms licence. An audit had also been undertaken of 300 mail order forms (section 43A forms) received by 3 selected retailers. Out of the 300 forms only one had an issue which was subsequently found to be genuine and was caused by poor writing of details. Police has created a simple and effective change by making it a requirement that the signed section 43A form filled out by the purchaser and countersigned by Police must be sent from Police direct to the seller. It was commented by two Forum members that this was a good step forward and good follow-up by Police.

Originally Posted by zimmer

Extract from the minutes of the Firearms Community Advisory Forum meeting held 3 Dec.


INTERNET FIREARMS SALES A review of ‘online sales’ was started approximately 1 month prior to the media attention created by Heather du Plessis-Allan and her purchase with a mail order form of a firearm without a firearms licence. An audit had also been undertaken of 300 mail order forms (section 43A forms) received by 3 selected retailers. Out of the 300 forms only one had an issue which was subsequently found to be genuine and was caused by poor writing of details. Police has created a simple and effective change by making it a requirement that the signed section 43A form filled out by the purchaser and countersigned by Police must be sent from Police direct to the seller. It was commented by two Forum members that this was a good step forward and good follow-up by Police.

Yes Zim and I'll predict that there will be as many different interpretations of this amended system as there are police districts!!!!
Remember, there was NO loophole in the system that was in use except for the lack of any method of guaranteeing that the police section at the bottom of the mail order form had been completed correctly & authentically( & NOT forged!!!!!!). The uniform use of the Arms Office rubber stamp ( which would be difficult to fraudulently copy)) in ALL police districts would have raised a red flag if it wasn't on the mail order form received by the firearm seller.

I wasn't aware until I got onto this forum that the use of this stamp was NOT standard operating procedure right throughout the NZ Police. Once again law abiding firearm owners get inconvenienced & have the finger pointed at them because of the inefficiencies of others outside of their personal control!!!!

People who want a mail order form completed at an Arms Office still need to arrange their work schedule/personal comittments around the possibility of no one being at an Arms Office when they arrive to complete the formalities. It isn't possible to make an appointment with most arms offices and they usually close shop at 4 or 4-30pm weekdays, and if you lived a fair distance away it could involve a lot of k's and a lot of time.

Several years ago I was given a number of mail order forms which the arms office people very helpfully completed,dated & stamped for me to take away to use at my convenience. That's what I call cooperation but it ain't going to happen under this new system!!!!

ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH WE GO!!!!!!!!

Had a POL67X that was to run out yesterday.
No one has been manning the police station in town to sign it for the last week.

Firearm arrived but it needed to be viewed and serial number confirmed. Have a mate that is local police sign it for me.
He took the form away and I said I have copies all my previous forms for restricted guns in my safe.
He said that we will no longer be able to keep the forms as record because people have been altering the ones they have to buy other guns. Not sure how, but it isn't surprising.

Apparently we are our own worst enemy at times.

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I can see that if you were motivated in such a way you could still easily get around new changes so not much has changed and we still operate under a deterrent based legal system to stop this.
Just more inconvenient to legally licensed firearms owners.
Nothing else has changed and neither would anyone wanting to obtain an illegal firearm obtain one this way, apart from struggling journos.

Comparing murder rates and gun ownership across countries - Crime Prevention Research CenterCrime Prevention Research Center

Slightly of topic but good rainy night reading.

I wonder how the Charlie and Paris terrorists attacks would be considered for the year 2015 statistics? Ah, yes, I think the numbers will be diluted by the huge influx of migrants France!!!! Thanks to them( multiple degrees of interpretation here!)

Originally Posted by Friwi

I wonder how the Charlie and Paris terrorists attacks would be considered for the year 2015 statistics? Ah, yes, I think the numbers will be diluted by the huge influx of migrants France!!!! Thanks to them( multiple degrees of interpretation here!)

Yes interesting stuff I was surprised how the UK "dilutes" it's data. Quote: "Their homicide numbers typically “exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defense or otherwise” I wounder if they included the London Bombings where the bombers were dead? Still Murder if you ask me. On the other hand if you want to equate legal gun ownership with Murder you need to drill down into the type and source of the weapon used to kill. If you look at the US statistics half of their Murders are still non-firearm related...

Yeah it's not surprising:

Quote: "300 mail order forms (section 43A forms) received by 3 selected retailers. Out of the 300 forms only one had an issue which was subsequently found to be genuine and was caused by poor writing of details."

So how many mail order firearms that we know of were criminally obtained? Apparently only one purchased by DG/HDA and co

I think TV3 should be more worried about a rise in criminality and loss of value for life/disrespect for the law and not legitimate firearms ownership.

Talked to a guy at H&F about sending firearms between stores as a service to there customers. They now need a copy of the 43a form before they can send, are worried about their liabilities and have been advised this is probably the best way to do it. Some of their stores didn't want to offer the service at all. I think they charge $50 for the service. Prob I had was I purchased a rifle from a guy where we both knew we a legit FAL holders and didn't need a police form, therefore their service couldn't be used. I think they need to look again a their policy and build their business on offering a useful service to their customers. Just my thoughts

Originally Posted by Maca49

Talked to a guy at H&F about sending firearms between stores as a service to there customers. They now need a copy of the 43a form before they can send, are worried about their liabilities and have been advised this is probably the best way to do it. Some of their stores didn't want to offer the service at all. I think they charge $50 for the service. Prob I had was I purchased a rifle from a guy where we both knew we a legit FAL holders and didn't need a police form, therefore their service couldn't be used. I think they need to look again a their policy and build their business on offering a useful service to their customers. Just my thoughts

Maca,
I don't think that any transfer of A cat firearms between dealers or from importers/agents requires any police documentation unless the sneaky sods have slipped some more inconvenient red tape under the door while we weren't looking????

I have often helped customers by couriering firearms to other stores ( including GC in Chr.Ch) for someone to uplift. The info goes into both shop's firearm registers so that the movement is traceable. $50!!!!!! Jeez that's a bit steep!!!!

If I recall it cost $60. You need to send a copy of the form. They open the package to make sure you are only sending what you claim and you haven't snuck in another gun or a restricted weapon. Last gun I bought I took my own advise and drove to get it. Took me the best part of a Saturday there and back but at least I had it and there was minimal fucking around.

Originally Posted by Beavis

If I recall it cost $60. You need to send a copy of the form. They open the package to make sure you are only sending what you claim and you haven't snuck in another gun or a restricted weapon. Last gun I bought I took my own advise and drove to get it. Took me the best part of a Saturday there and back but at least I had it and there was minimal fucking around.

My last one done by H and F was $20 between firms and that was 6 months ago

So why are we feeling the need to pay $50 to ship a firearm through HF when we can pay less at fastway and they will shut the fuck up and just do their job you pay them to do, delivered right to their fucking doorstep.

Originally Posted by Jexla

So why are we feeling the need to pay $50 to ship a firearm through HF when we can pay less at fastway and they will shut the fuck up and just do their job you pay them to do, delivered right to their fucking doorstep.

Last time I used fastway it was 75 dollars.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Last time I used fastway it was 75 dollars.

Same.