Thread: Cartridge popularity survey. Gibo, this one aint for you.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings,
It is unfortunate that the US cartridge manufacturers feel the need to flood the market with cartridges that, most of which, do little more than reproduce the performance of existing. Many are declared obsolete almost before they hit the dealers shelves which leaves the few good ones struggling to survive.
GPM.

I think it’s an economic imperative for manufacturers to keep innovating and producing new stuff. A certain percentage of the market is driven by firearms enthusiasts that like to try new stuff and experiment.

The move to faster twists has driven a lot of it, and I see that as only a good thing. It’s pretty clear now the market really likes long, heavy, high BC bullets with better ballistics, and why not?

Originally Posted by Flyblown

I would be curious to know what the geographical spread of the 800 responses looks like. And what a bell curve of respondents’ age looks like. I asked my cuz in Colorado what he thought of the survey results and he said he’d be surprised if the main chains like Cabelas sold one .270 Win for every ten 6.5 PRCs or twenty Creedmoors these days. Just doesn’t see .270s in new rifles or in chat on the forums he frequents.

I think some of it will be hunting, Versus other uses. PRC comps for example. Also a lot of hunters dont go buy new guns. Relying on the new gun market as an indicator is not accurate. Imaging discounting all the trademe sales In NZ.
And there is a big number of guys who will have an existing rifle in one of the older cals that are not visiting the gunshops.

Originally Posted by gimp

I also doubt that .280AI is actually the 10th most commonly used cartridge since it's largely a custom proposition

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

It might be more common over there than here.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

I think it’s an economic imperative for manufacturers to keep innovating and producing new stuff. A certain percentage of the market is driven by firearms enthusiasts that like to try new stuff and experiment.

The move to faster twists has driven a lot of it, and I see that as only a good thing. It’s pretty clear now the market really likes long, heavy, high BC bullets with better ballistics, and why not?

Why not? One answer. Recoil. The lists top 5 or so all have one thing in common, a medium weight projectile at +- 3000fps. As either velocity or weight of projectile, or both gos up, they become less popular.

People will buy the new cartridges with exception of the 6.5s. Try them, and pass then on and go back too one in the medium category. It's all been done before. Look at military cartridges over the last 120 years, and the discussion again around the 277 fury. Soldiers too, dont like the big rounds. The 30 carbine which was intended as a second line weapon, ended up being the most manufactured us gun of ww2

Originally Posted by whanahuia

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

It might be more common over there than here.

Yeah could be

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Why not? One answer. Recoil. The lists top 5 or so all have one thing in common, a medium weight projectile at +- 3000fps. As either velocity or weight of projectile, or both gos up, they become less popular.

People will buy the new cartridges with exception of the 6.5s. Try them, and pass then on and go back too one in the medium category. It's all been done before. Look at military cartridges over the last 120 years, and the discussion again around the 277 fury. Soldiers too, dont like the big rounds. The 30 carbine which was intended as a second line weapon, ended up being the most manufactured us gun of ww2

I think it's useful to separate "new cartridges" from "new magnum cartridges"


There are lots of new magnum cartridges that noone really needs, but there are also new cartridge options, primarily those introduced by hornady, that are moderate, sensible and make real if small improvements over existing designs. These now mean you can buy factory ammo and rifles and shoot really sensible bullets at really sensible speeds, which isn't possible with SAAMI specs for older cartridges.

e.g. .243 - manufacturers will not make 100+gr ELD style ammunition for .243 as there are so many old rifles out there chambered in 1:10 twist barrels. 6mm CM or 6mm GT however you can buy a new factory rifle and factory ammo and shoot 108s or 109s or 103s with no hassle.

Modern case and chamber designs do make real but minor improvements - changes to tolerances and clearances in design mean better inherent precision, changes to case angles mean less case stretch so better case life and less trimming. All real but minor. If starting from scratch as a shooter with an interest, why not use the modern designs?

6.5 Creedmoor is really the original example in recent years.

you are right whanahuia I have often wondered how a scrawny little mummy's boy from California got on with the recoil of a 30-06 Springfield training in WW2 I quess a big hard staff Seargent to tell him to stop blubbing and start shooting - Dad used to tell me they were shit scared of the Boyes anti tank when training in Egypt had to be ordered up to mound for their turn

Come the zombie apocalypse, when you are crawling through the remains of burnt out houses in your town, trying to find more ammo for your 6.5 CM you'll find someone's ammo drawer and scream into the wind " What!!!! not more bloody 308 ammo

Originally Posted by XR500

Come the zombie apocalypse, when you are crawling through the remains of burnt out houses in your town, trying to find more ammo for your 6.5 CM you'll find someone's ammo drawer and scream into the wind " What!!!! not more bloody 308 ammo

Have you considered 223

well you will likely find 12 gauge XR500 just get close

Originally Posted by XR500

Come the zombie apocalypse, when you are crawling through the remains of burnt out houses in your town, trying to find more ammo for your 6.5 CM you'll find someone's ammo drawer and scream into the wind " What!!!! not more bloody 308 ammo

Why can't we all just get along? Peace out, Brother.

Originally Posted by XR500

Come the zombie apocalypse, when you are crawling through the remains of burnt out houses in your town, trying to find more ammo for your 6.5 CM you'll find someone's ammo drawer and scream into the wind " What!!!! not more bloody 308 ammo

Best comment on the thread right there haha

Originally Posted by gimp

I think it's useful to separate "new cartridges" from "new magnum cartridges"


There are lots of new magnum cartridges that noone really needs, but there are also new cartridge options, primarily those introduced by hornady, that are moderate, sensible and make real if small improvements over existing designs. These now mean you can buy factory ammo and rifles and shoot really sensible bullets at really sensible speeds, which isn't possible with SAAMI specs for older cartridges.

e.g. .243 - manufacturers will not make 100+gr ELD style ammunition for .243 as there are so many old rifles out there chambered in 1:10 twist barrels. 6mm CM or 6mm GT however you can buy a new factory rifle and factory ammo and shoot 108s or 109s or 103s with no hassle.

Modern case and chamber designs do make real but minor improvements - changes to tolerances and clearances in design mean better inherent precision, changes to case angles mean less case stretch so better case life and less trimming. All real but minor. If starting from scratch as a shooter with an interest, why not use the modern designs?

6.5 Creedmoor is really the original example in recent years.

I think the two 6.5s, and possibly the 6s as you say will find their place further up the lists in future. They do fit the criteria. But Im not sure the improvements, as real as they may be, will be the deciding factors for the majority.

Originally Posted by gimp

Have you considered 223

Yes, I have this stuff in .223....they just kept coming.....

Originally Posted by XR500

Yes, I have this stuff in .223....they just kept coming.....

Attachment 282035

that'll be because you are not using ELDMs...