Thread: How to get your rifle to shoot less than MOA

all you need is 3 inches ,an inch in an inch out and an inch going in and out

115yds, 9x scope, pillow for a rest, 6mm sierra 'seconds' in a gun that was destined for trade me to be one someone else problem
Wouldn't put out 3 rds onto A4 with factory ammo, and 6" of the barrel was rotten away

Light weight pills and IIRC 0.108 group...


I have a couple of guns that between 5-200 rds after a clean will shoot 1/4 all day till they start to carbon foul
I honestly don't think I have anything that will shoot over an inch other than open sight war era stuff

Imagine all the ink we d save by instead of printing red centres just printing an out line as no one hits that part ..

I like my targets like this cos I always center up




Or miss it altogeather so it doesn't count he he he ...

I prefer to use bulls eyes made from post-it paper...then I can move them around after shooting before taking photos.

Well based on all I have read here KG must be a bit disapointed as his smallest one shot groups will be way bigger than everyone else's.

Originally Posted by Spanners

115yds, 9x scope, pillow for a rest, 6mm sierra 'seconds' in a gun that was destined for trade me to be one someone else problem
Wouldn't put out 3 rds onto A4 with factory ammo, and 6" of the barrel was rotten away

Light weight pills and IIRC 0.108 group...


I have a couple of guns that between 5-200 rds after a clean will shoot 1/4 all day till they start to carbon foul
I honestly don't think I have anything that will shoot over an inch other than open sight war era stuff

Is that bullet hole under the calipers part of the group?
Groups are always measured from the centers of the two furthest apart bullet holes , this way the effect of caliber on the group size is negated , the easy way is to measure from outside to outside then deduct the caliber .

Originally Posted by Steveh054

As above.. Today I had very little to do so I took my recently bedded .270 BSA Majestic with Truflite Premium Barrel fitted by Gunworks to a trued action, never took my camera but the results were astounding!!! First I fired a 3 shot group which measured 1" and I thought "fuck that's piss poor" but after seeing on one these threads on the forum recently of a 1/4" sporting rifle, I thought I would have a go at matching that, so I fired 3 one shot groups and fuckme they were all under 1/4" and that is how you shoot 1/4" with a sporting rifle. So all you Guys that are getting 1/4" and less 3 shot groups consistently with your sporter barrel and 3-9 x 40 Nikko scope I say..........."FUCKING BULLSHIT" you are. That is benchrest accuracy!! and the majority of shooters cannot even get close to that kind of accuracy shooting off the bonnet of the truck or a rolled up shirt on the ground, so get real ya bullshittin' pricks.
I now await the flack from the bullshit brigade
Today I am bored

you're not alone there cobba. I'm currently working on a Remington 5R Milspec in .300 Win Mag Calibre (hence my name!). My bullets are seated to within .0005" of each other, the bullet run-out is typically <.002" with quite a few "tipping the scales" @ as low as .0005" and yet I'm still getting among the 1 & 1/4" to 1 & 3/4" groups at 100m on a good day, and I've never owned or loaded for any of my firearms that have shot less than that!

Not unlike "Spanners" grouping, last weekend I fired a three shot group as good as his, but then the fourth shot went wider and the fifth shot opened the group right out to 1 & 1/2"!

So it beats the hell out of me how they do it!

Originally Posted by Druid

Is that bullet hole under the calipers part of the group?
Groups are always measured from the centers of the two furthest apart bullet holes , this way the effect of caliber on the group size is negated , the easy way is to measure from outside to outside then deduct the caliber .

Nope that's the next group

Fully away how to measure a group lol
It's 2.74.. Around 0.108 roughly off top of my head

Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

you're not alone there cobba. I'm currently working on a Remington 5R Milspec in .300 Win Mag Calibre (hence my name!). My bullets are seated to within .0005" of each other, the bullet run-out is typically <.002" with quite a few "tipping the scales" @ as low as .0005" and yet I'm still getting among the 1 & 1/4" to 1 & 3/4" groups at 100m on a good day, and I've never owned or loaded for any of my firearms that have shot less than that!

Not unlike "Spanners" grouping, last weekend I fired a three shot group as good as his, but then the fourth shot went wider and the fifth shot opened the group right out to 1 & 1/2"!

So it beats the hell out of me how they do it!

Does it have a brake?
I more than halved my 300 RUM groups when the brake was fitted
Infact 1.5" ish to around 1/2"
Without it the gun was just too much for me to soak up with my gammy shoulder

I load 90% of my ammo on progressive presses using droppers and bullet feeders mostly.
Some calibers I don't do a thing, it just spits them out automatically.

Wanna know my secret to accurate loads?? LOL - I believe it's all about fill. 90-98% powder fill - and decent neck tension, not powder weights to 0.01 of a grain and bullets 0.001 runout etc
The Dillon measures are probably 0.1 0.2gr either way.. That's around 1% accuracy in 308 - more than good enough

Lee factory crimp dies for adding consistent heavier neck tension - have a read up on how many people rate them for making groups smaller, and they are possibly the cheapest die available on the market.

I don't prep cases other than tumbling clean.. FL sizing except neck on 303, 300 RUM and 338LM - every 2nd loading as to go easy on the brass
Have never uniformed a flash hole, never checked runout, don't care where the lands are.

4 rds of 4 powder weights - 2 under, 1 at max and 1 over ADI book load will let you know if its going to shoot and likes the projectile and also pressure range.
If not, then time to move onto something else.
30 cal Speer projs were the only ones I couldn't get to shoot under 1" in any of my guns.
They measure differently to Hornady (don't remember which way- but could check when I get home if interested)
99% of what I shoot is Hornady, with a splash of Nosler CCs thrown in (forgetting about pistols)
The softer the jacket the easier it into get to shoot IMO
I've got some gear to test hardness of jackets, just haven't got around to it yet.

Obviously people will disagree with some of my opinions, and that's fine, each to their own - they can spend 2 hrs prepping 100 cases... I'll spend that 2 hrs drinking beer and watching them do it

Agree with you Spanners. 30calterry has same gun R5 (with suppresser and muzzle brake to choose from) and it puts rounds through the same hole consistently. There's something maybe not quite right on your R5
they are usually accurate as . It has Timney trigger and good optics as well. and is scary accurate. Taking out magpies at 300 to 350 is reasonably impressive with no effort.
PM him and ask for the load data I know its AMAX 208 but that's all. Terminator brake or using Hardy suppresser f all recoil with either. POI change between them not sure ask him.

Thanks for that guys, I've never been one for having fandangled things hanging off my barrels no matter how much the reduction in recoil or tightness of groups.

I know what you're saying Spanners, as I've got all the Redding Competition Dies, Spinners, Primer Pocket Uniformers, Flash Hole Deburrers, Case Neck Turners, Bore Scopes, Bore Sighters, Chronographs etc, the list goes on and on and on, however, I seem to produce some of the worst groups imaginable (like never once have I shot 5 shots in less than an inch!) in any rifle I've ever had.

I think I need to play around a lot more with the magical Powder/Projectile combination. I have been using Nosler 180 Grain Ballistic Tips, as I've had great results with these for stopping deer in the last 15 years, out to around 250m, however, for "Long Range" Hunting I might have to be open-minded to different projectiles!

Thanks Happy, for your sixpence worth, I guess that's helped to make me... Well, "Happy"!

By the sounds of it you need to relax ... not easy to do behind a .270 though. Read some books/magazines on the subject or troll the web. Go to a club and get a pro to give you a lesson or pointers. Also practice lots and shoot smaller calibres and put into practice what you've picked up. Shoot 500 rounds of .22 and build up a pre-shot routine. Shoot 100's of .223's ... targets, gongs, bunnies ... then get back onto the .270.