Thread: 1080 KILLING FISH

Originally Posted by Woody

This is another even stronger petition. Please get in and sign it asap. A major protest will occur at WCRC offices today including media and TV coverage.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/431/4...n-health/#sign

Done

Done...

Originally Posted by Dundee

Done

Done !!!!

Originally Posted by Woody

This is another even stronger petition. Please get in and sign it asap. A major protest will occur at WCRC offices today including media and TV coverage.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/431/4...n-health/#sign

Done

Done

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

Done

Done

Here's an interesting read (link got from Josh James Facebook page).

Compound 1080: Another Devastating Frankentoxin, Patented By Monsanto | The Liberty Beacon

http://www.wadingo.com/1080development.pdf

Has anyone got a link or a PDF copy of the paper stating 1080 isn't water soluble? I've read it somewhere (I think on the fnh site) but can't find it again.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Has anyone got a link or a PDF copy of the paper stating 1080 isn't water soluble? I've read it somewhere (I think on the fnh site) but can't find it again.

1080 is soluble, just like coffee. But coffee is still coffee, and 1080 is still 1080, dissolved or not. You might be getting confused by the oft made claims by the Forest and Bird and AHB / DoC extremists who keep saying it breaks down readily in water. This is a very misleading statement. 1080 in cold water may not "break down" for months or even years. It will break down in warm water when certain bacteria are present, but this seldom occurs in NZ's cold clear forest streams.

Originally Posted by Woody

1080 is soluble, just like coffee. But coffee is still coffee, and 1080 is still 1080, dissolved or not. You might be getting confused by the oft made claims by the Forest and Bird and AHB / DoC extremists who keep saying it breaks down readily in water. This is a very misleading statement. 1080 in cold water may not "break down" for months or even years. It will break down in warm water when certain bacteria are present, but this seldom occurs in NZ's cold clear forest streams.

The only PDF file I found after a quick look.

http://1080poison.co.nz/wp-content/u.../testimony.pdf

That's right Woody, and there is a scientific paper about that somewhere. Along with another couple of interesting facts.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

That's right Woody, and there is a scientific paper about that somewhere. Along with another couple of interesting facts.

Is this it??


What chemicals can manufactured 1080 break down into and how? The carbon-carbon bond in the sodium mono-fluoroacetate molecule is less stable (weaker) than the carbon-fluorine bond, and so over time and with hydration (adding H~), sunlight can break the bond down, and the molecule can degrade into sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO~) and methyl fluoride (CHEF). This could happen if the molecules are lying for some time in surface water in sunlight. How likely is this to be the situation in a forest? If the molecules have entered streams or ground water, they are also unlikely to break down via sunlight.
The chemical equation for this possible break down, if it occurs, is:
CI |2FCOONa + H2O = NaHCO3 + CH3F with all elements and their symbols accounted for.
Methyl fluoride is a volatile fluoro-hydrocarbon which rots the ozone layer and contributes to the ozone hole! (Now - there is an emotive statement!)
Sodium bicarbonate is a metal salt (common name baking soda). Metal salt is the general scientific term for a positively charged metal ion (Na+) joined to a negatively charged ion of an element, or a radicle (group of elements behaving like an element) - in this case the bicarbonate ion (HCO3). It is this term (metal salt) which may have contributed to the "salt and vinegar' story.'
The salt and vinegar story.
Some claim that hydration (adding water, as in rain) spontaneously causes the dissociation of the fluorine and a4.~tate part of the 1080 molecule. This in turn has led to the "myth', often and recently repeated that it breaks down into harmless by-products, namely "salt and vinegar" 1,2
Salt (or common table salt) is sodium chloride (NaCI). Vinegar (or acetic acid) is CH3COOH.
Sodium monofluoroacetate cannot "break down" into salt and vinegar. It does not contain the element Chlorine (Cl) so cannot form table salt. Vinegar is not a product of the degradation of sodium monofluoroacetate.
Figure 1 shows the structure of an acetate ion. 3 Adding one hydrogen atom to it could indeed produce CH3COOH (acetic acid or vinegar). However, water (H20), has two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen one. What happens to the other hydrogen atom and the oxygen one? You cannot rip off part of a molecule unless all components of both chemicals (acetate ion and water) have been accounted for.
This is impossible anyway, because the acetate ion is not the negative ion present in 1080. It is the monofluoroacetate ion which is present. Simply adding H20 to monofluoroacetate (CH2FCOO-) does not happen, and if it could, it cannot produce vinegar. There simply are not the right number of atoms present.
When water is added to sodium monofluoroacetate it "dissolves" but dces not lose its integrity. It is diluted as the molecules are spread out in water (like dissolving coffee in water), but the molecules remain as sodium monofluoroacetate molecules.


Here's some more good info....
http://newzealandecology.org/nzje/2968.pdf

Going to see the Graf Bros show their docos at the Albert Town Pub (near Wanaka) on the 8th. I have seen bits before but will be good to get along for a look and meet a few other locals who are thinking that there is a better way.