Thread: Proposed banning of lead shot in sub gauge shotguns report from Southland

Yer well, the fucking ducks are a pest issue so come under pest management and I'll smoke fuckers accordingly. And with whatever I dam well please.

having personally PM'd Prof: Mike Spray the Massey scientist involved in waterway pollution debate re his thought on this issue;his reply basically was this is a mere pimple on the elephants arse in comparison to "dirty dairying".says a lot about perspective

KWB, I see you've joined another forum on which to talk your dribble. As said previously to you, if you've got some evidence to the contrary of all the F & G research as well as the overseas based research by all means send it through to our staff down here. I note you didn't in your submission.

Apologies to you guys who are against this decision but I must remind you our role as Councillor's is to manage the sport and ensure there is a resource for the future. To allow lead to continue to be deposited when there is an alternative that 96% of the population are happy to use is not able to be justified. And before anyone mentions wounding rates of steel it is not about that. If you think it is and want to refer to the humane society article on it I suggest you read the section where wounding rates on geese were higher with lead than with steel.

I know I've been as open about this as possible by putting up our meeting minutes the moment this came on the agenda, posting up the advert for submissions, ringing up people who put their name to the submission we received and finally putting the original post here up. I know its not going to gain me votes but I'm here to do the best I can for the sport. I'm not sure the lead users are as passionate as I or the others who have changed our ways to use steel successfully.

Maybe policing waterways may work. I heard storys where a few people shot 200 ducks and more on opening they were bringing back their limit and going back out. That was 2011 last year the season was that shit those same people complained wtf.

Our rangers are very active down here and we unfortunately have a very high non compliance rate. We're still having guys caught on opening shooting lead through 12 gauges FFS! The only way for them to get around every maimai on opening would be to get more staff and that would mean more money required through increased licence fees. If your aware of people doing what you've said above I'd suggest a discreet word to F & G and they might just watch that spot next year.

Dont neet to be rising fees. Shhhh keep that idea out of the idea bucket

FFS. And the lead in the water does what Mike, sweet fuck all. Go read the water reports on the Taieri and do something about that. Money much better spent, and not just my opinion but fact. Technically it's been years since the water has been clean enough to even swim in. What is f&g doing about that?

Then there is the stupid ponds at the top of Henley. Visa ad those fuckers.

Wirehunt, you possibly have missed the last 10 years of lobbying by F & G about waterways which are the responsibility of regional councils. Everyone knows of the term dirty dairying, that was because of F & G's awareness campaign. They can lobby councils and raise awareness but they're prevented from directly taking action as the law doesn't allow it. True lead in water does F all while its sitting there, its when ducks pick it up while seiving for grit that it becomes an issue. They collect it in their gizzards, grind it up with the small stones they use to break down their food and either die or become infertile.

The trouble with you types that are in F&G or any governing body for that matter Mike, is you think your position comes with a sudden onslaught of intelligence and knowledge.
Who the fuck are you to say people against the ban dont care about our sport?
That is however, the typical attitude of people in your position. You think you are better, because of your position, than the people you are supposed to be helping.

Lead has been used for over a 100yrs in NZ and yet for some reason duck numbers in some regions are lower than they ever have been, and thats just since the ban. I would suggest F&G efforts would be better finding out why that is, instead of making changes that will see no immediate results.
I am pretty sure I have held a game and fishing licence every year since 81'
If I seen undisputed evidence provided over time and not taken from another country that lead use was killing a higher % of waterfowl than other issues we have in this country I would happily use steel. Period.
I personally do not think the lead ban has any merritt in all of NZ especially where I hunt, due to the lack of dabbling water and the number of floods. But what the fuck do I know, I am just a dumb cunt that buys a licence every year to keep some all knowing F&G idiots in a job.

My point being, there is plenty more things immediately reducing our waterfowl numbers that to me, need to be sorted before any reduction of bird numbers can be studied properly and attributed to lead

Mike H
During the research was any steel shot found in the gizzards of ducks?
Also what were the number of ducks autopsied and how many different areas and distance between them.
Is the raw data available to the public to have analysed by a third party?

If someone can explain to me how to upload a document I can put up the paper from when the initial research was done. I can't find it on a website to put up a link.

R93, chill bro. People may care but they are hypocritical and ignorant to the facts if they think its okay to feed lead to ducks. We have dabbling water everywhere in this country. Ducks need it to gather and seive grit. They don't get it from paddocks.

I'm not an expert just because I'm on the Council. We have staff that are who present the info to us. Because you don't attend meetings and hear and see it your unfortunately not privy to it all. We make our decisions based off of that.

Have you ever read any of the available material when you say you've seen no evidence?

I just cant be fucked anymore. Do what ya's want, ya will anyway.
If this ban comes into the coast and I see it happening I will never buy another licence and just shoot sporting clays because shooting decoying ducks is to me is as boring as DTL, but easier.
I cant be ass'ed funding a body that is happy too or does not even consider it has cost me large sums of money by their over zealous decisions.
I have no doubt lead is toxic to ducks. So I must be ignorant. Rusty steel pellets must be ingested by ducks for grit. It will not wear down like lead. Where are the toxicity results on that Mike?
But it is a percentage thing. The % of fowl reduction compared to other issues is minute. Starvation kills more ducks than hunters do IMO.

I have in my time attended a few meetings and frankly, wished I spent the time, listening to an hour of Jim Careys most annoying sound in the world.

Mick H, I respect the time and the effort you put in to what is obviously a passionate cause for you. However if you honestly think that 96% of duck shooters up our way use steel shot for shooting ducks then, I truely don't know what to say to you.

Check sales man, do you really think all that lead bought in April is going to be used on clays.

Are you talking 12 or 20 gauge?

Originally Posted by Mike H

Are you talking 12 or 20 gauge?

I would have thought it was obvious that he is talking 12g