Thread: Has 1080 by kill struck again

Originally Posted by gimp

I have a great button that I can use to that effect.

Divisive threads, regardless of the subject matter, are the death of forums.
How to control that is not a easy path for any mod,as they always have there own opinion like everyone else on the subject at hand.
Is a divisive thread,or subject,worth the death of the group? Regardless of where the controlling mods stand on the subject.

I'm glad I'm not a mod

I can stand and say I hate 1080,and also say I don't see any compleat solution.
Right now if the funding was there,and it's not, I would increase trapping with the newish c02 traps and Arial poison the areas that can't for whatever reason can't be trapped. Over time those areas will be reduced. But I don't ever see them being eliminated.

My background?
I worked for doc,worked with 1080 amongst other things and other projects.
Left doc because of both $ and the bs, I don't think I could say what was larger in my mind at the time.
But since then I have worked as a volunteering on pest control projects wherever I have lived.

These threads seem to have a lot of black and white true believers, and the Gray gets drowned out.

I see the value as minimal, when compared to the disruption it causes to the forum it's on.

For what it is worth, I think Graeme and Woody do a pretty good job, When guys who have history and experience like these guys, it's probably worth taking notice.

Originally Posted by Gapped axe

For what it is worth, I think Graeme and Woody do a pretty good job, When guys who have history and experience like these guys, it's probably worth taking notice.

It is being noticed 9 pages now.

Let's be honest though, and just to add to it further it is 9 pages of mostly drivel and mud slinging.
Best bit so far was the story about the Morepork liberating the rat into the fenced sanctuary.
You can only laugh at the irony of that one.

Most have strong beliefs about 1080. However, unless we have a big wig amongst us I doubt, in fact I know we are simply banging our heads against a brick wall.

I don't believe a 1080 debate really deserves 9 pages of korero, especially when some of us are just warming up it seems. But there are always far too many personal attacks in such threads.
In the interest of unity these threads are rarely worth reading and contributing to.
Unfortunately.

How many are under the pile they can't see?

I am fairly new to this forum but I spent a long time on another forum - some of it on 1080 issues that have been debated extensively by very knowledgeable people
I retired a couple of years back and spent more time on forums and learned a bit about 1080 - I was horrified to learn about the cruelty of 1080 - information that I picked up from anti 1080 people such as Clyde Graff
I spent a long time learning everything I could about 1080 and was sure that I would be able to find something from a scientist somewhere in the world to stop 1080 use in NZ - but alas - the only information that I have found that has been useful to me came from Charles Eason - from the Cawthron Institute - Cawthron Institute: People People - one of his papers that resolved the cruelty issues for me - An updated review of the toxicology and ecotoxicology of sodium fluoroacetate (1080) in relation to its use as a pest control tool in New Zealand - Sodium fluoroacetate (1080) is a vertebrate pesticide, originally developed in the 1940s and... - New
This indicates that in the final stages of death - animals are likely to have suffered a seizure and are unlikely to experience pain
Don’t get me wrong - I hate 1080 for various reasons - but it may be one of the more effective tools we have to save some of our birds. I do however believe that DOC are ignoring the opportunities for many parts of our bush and high country that could be trapped - as suggested by Marty Foote
I can’t understand why the pro 1080 people continually try to stifle debate about 1080 issues on hunting forums - there are a few on here (they are the same guys on the other forum) that try to swamp debate with their highly educated “speak” where they try to put good ordinary people down
For goodness sake - free speech is one of our great principles - we can actually learn from open debate on any subject - semi political or otherwise
Most of us are hunters or have been hunters in our lifetime - most of us love the environment and most animals that live in it and will do anything to resolve issues for our birds - many of us are actually out there killing predators and saving birds - at considerable time and cost to ourselves
There have been some great ideas floated on the hunting forums - if 1080 issues offend some members then maybe this forum should have a Politics of Hunting section - if you don’t like thinking about 1080 - just don’t go there
I don’t know why Marty Henry got kicked out of here - maybe he was getting political - but he opened up some great debate on the other forum - the man has some great ideas for alternatives to 1080
Some will say that you will never add any value to the 1080 debate if you take an extreme position - such as Clive Graff or Marty Henry - and that the population in general just switch off - maybe - but the general population has been significantly influenced by the Government and DOC publicity machines where money was no object
Only time will tell about 1080 maybe the saviour of our birds - maybe neutral - maybe another environmental disaster - just be patient and give it time - read all you can from Charles Eason and you will know most of what there is to know about 1080

I'd like to see greater use made of the CO2, resetting kill stations that have come on the market. They use poison free baits and can kill 10-15 times before the mini gas canister needs to be replaced. We've just bought one for stoats/rats, as we haven't had any luck catching stoats with anything else.

The possum version can screwed onto the trunk of a tree, out of the way of other animals. The replacement baits and gas canisters don't cost much either. Which is more than I can say about the replacement margarine-container-type poison block that fits in a bait station attached to a tree. Those things are a ridiculous price now. I don't see why the price has gone up? It'll be too expensive to use in any great quantity.

If the gas powered captive bolt killing stations had larger gas cylinders, they'd be useful in bush situations.

Originally Posted by Inger

I
If the gas powered captive bolt killing stations had larger gas cylinders

Myself and undoubtedly others have found them easy to adapt to use much larger paintball co2 tanks.
This greatly increases the cost and heft of the units. While I would like to see this offered as a factory option it has not noticeably increased our activations per man hour-maybe our program needs to evolve more to make better use of the larger tanks.
Right now,I would prefer a co2 trap that somehow reported back as to its status.

My Other Half says that the ability for the unit to report back, would be hindered by the lack of cell phone coverage in most areas where there is a high number of possums.

If there was good cell phone coverage, it should be possible to make a small printed circuit board that connects to the counter which is available for these kill traps. It can then phone home and let you know how many times the unit has fired.

Trapping is the way to go but the playing field is tilted badly against trappers and traps.

Anyone who has ever taken a kill trap through the Registration and testing processes know just how expensive and how loaded the process is against traps.

A kill trap owner must be able to demonstrate his traps ability to kill three animals. Each animal must have expired in under three minutes from the moment the trap is triggered. This process is carried out under a rigidly controlled regime at a testing facility.

Also the trap must demonstrate it can be made bird safe.

Whereas our two registered 'Aerial Dropped Residual Poisons' can take three days and three weeks respectively to kill an animal.
Aerial Dropped Residual Poisons, are not pest specific, nor are they selective, they kill all oxygen breathing creatures.

Why is the trapping targeted at the possums death?, What research has been done into live capture in large numbers?, Certainly they are still going to die at the hands of the trapper, but what is the time frame for checking live capture traps?

Originally Posted by DavidGunn

Why is the trapping targeted at the possums death?, What research has been done into live capture in large numbers?, Certainly they are still going to die at the hands of the trapper, but what is the time frame for checking live capture traps?

Its all legal mumbo jumbo now except for DOC and there supporters

A reminder of rules for the use of leg-hold traps | MPI Biosecurity New Zealand

Somewhere on here is a member trapping extensively who has used the gas resetting traps and found them not to catch unless very high numbers?

I am sure I read it on here?