Thread: Poaching, let's get this straight

I do love the self righteous around here.

I hope you always remember to update your doc permit.
I hope you never have a dead duck land over a fence or an animal take off over one.

A eye opener. Every cockie I've worked for has told me if I'm onto animals and they go over a fence to chase them down...

Originally Posted by square1

Is it trespassing if there is a sign saying that you can't be there without permission? Or does someone have to catch you and verbally ask you to leave?

As far as I understand I can trespass you today. I don't have to know you, or even have any reason for doing so. I can trespass you even if you are in another island from me.

Weren't the cops doing blanket trespass in Southland on people on certain country roads?

I like the story (true) about the people who were on a farmer's land collecting field mushrooms...he followed them all the way back to town then proceeded to take fruit off a tree in their garden...the guy went ballistic and threatened to ring the police...the farmer said now you know what it feels like; all you needed to do was to come and ask me.

This whole subject is highly emotive...none of us like to find people uninvited near our property whatever their intent. We are all naturally enough jumpy about unknown personages with firearms on and in anyone's property, or unknown personages without firearms for that matter.

The peasants of yesteryear who poached or snared animals to augment their diets were if caught mostly sent to the colony of Australia for the duration of their natural life. One rabbit for a stew...

I'd shoot off technical 'private property' that's bordering doc land bur not too far in.

Originally Posted by kiwigreen

I'd shoot off technical 'private property' that's bordering doc land bur not too far in.

Whats so technical about it, if your knowingly on private property with a firearm an without permission, regardless of how close to doc land you are, your pushing the boundary of being "fit and proper".

The only excuse in my opinion would be pursuing a wounded animal.

As a recent poster said

"......Emotive opinion has no place in this discussion and particularly when backed up with little knowledge of the law.... I think most are out of their depth judging by what I have seen written so far.."

and judging from their last "whoops" post, I can only agree.

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I think that is unfair criticism...and as this thread has proven, the matter is a pretty shade of grey...writing that, everyone darn well knows if they are on land they have no permission to be on...what would DOC do if one of their kind found you on a block you had no permit for...or had no FAL but a rifle with a full mag.

If anything this thread has proven to me it's that a lot of you "jump the fence" and then wonder why you meet grumpy farmers at road ends
The division between those of us that try and make a living from the land and the town people grows bigger.



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Originally Posted by gimp

Semantics aside I don't believe there is any legal offence defined as poaching in Mew Zealand so it's something of a moot point

How about trespassing with a firearm.........doesn't take much to ask and generally they will either let you on or give you a good reason for not......either way its their land their livelihood and they don't need any dipshits with guns shooting stock or each other. I also posted on the other poaching thread re this matter. As I recently had a run in with some folks who thought it was their god given right to be where they were. Courts thought different

Yeah i agree BRADS, with everyone looking up specific rules and regs and trying to be judge judy thinking they no all it will only lead to more people thinking they can get away with it....

If its not your property, dont go on it. end of story. doesnt matter if you have a gun or not, you shouldnt be there....

Originally Posted by square1

Is it trespassing if there is a sign saying that you can't be there without permission? Or does someone have to catch you and verbally ask you to leave?

To be really honest I am not sure that a sign is sufficient. What I do know is that trespass is not completed until you have been warned to leave and failed to do so. I would think that you would have to establish that the sign had been seen, that the contents of the warning on the sign were legally sufficient to constitute a legal warning. The "trespassers will be prosecuted" sign is not legally sufficient to met the legal requirements of notice.

There are other offences when firearms are involved when it comes to being unlawfully on private property... as pointed out by others...

Brad...

In so far as this thread may educate some about their legal responsibilities or rights it is not a waste of time. Provided of course we concentrate on the facts and not the emotional opinion.... and to be honest the emotion appears to be mostly from a landowner perspective...

I take your point about about mushrooms and apples. I would also make the point that a lot of people are a lot more precious these days than they used to be about such things. It may have always been technically wrong to jump the fence for a few mushrooms, but in the past few worried about it and we are the poorer for being so indignant now.

People also keep harping on about the similarities regarding private property whilst ignoring the very obvious differences.. it is not the same for the simple reason of proximity. Wandering around my 800 square meter section with a firearm in a built up residential area, is entirely different to some furtive poacher sneaking around your back paddock trying not to attract your attention whilst in the pursuit of a wild animal that does not belong to you.

That being said it is illegal to do so... if you wish to take that risk, to potentially lose your firearms licence, to be convicted of an offence with firearms which may affect your travel plans and immigrant status for other countries, then I guess you can.... personally I would think that it may not be worth the risk...

Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

As a recent poster said

"......Emotive opinion has no place in this discussion and particularly when backed up with little knowledge of the law.... I think most are out of their depth judging by what I have seen written so far.."

and judging from their last "whoops" post, I can only agree.

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And you look like a dick in your photo....

The thing about that amendment is that is very recent... and I did attempt to edit my post immediately which I cannot do... hence my whoops...

The pertinent fact still was that burglary either way still relates to buildings not land... did you miss that bit?

Originally Posted by Sidney

To be really honest I am not sure that a sign is sufficient. What I do know is that trespass is not completed until you have been warned to leave and failed to do so. I would think that you would have to establish that the sign had been seen, that the contents of the warning on the sign were legally sufficient to constitute a legal warning. The "trespassers will be prosecuted" sign is not legally sufficient to met the legal requirements of notice.

There are other offences when firearms are involved when it comes to being unlawfully on private property... as pointed out by others...

Brad...

In so far as this thread may educate some about their legal responsibilities or rights it is not a waste of time. Provided of course we concentrate on the facts and not the emotional opinion.... and to be honest the emotion appears to be mostly from a landowner perspective...

I take your point about about mushrooms and apples. I would also make the point that a lot of people are a lot more precious these days than they used to be about such things. It may have always been technically wrong to jump the fence for a few mushrooms, but in the past few worried about it and we are the poorer for being so indignant now.

People also keep harping on about the similarities regarding private property whilst ignoring the very obvious differences.. it is not the same for the simple reason of proximity. Wandering around my 800 square meter section with a firearm in a built up residential area, is entirely different to some furtive poacher sneaking around your back paddock trying not to attract your attention whilst in the pursuit of a wild animal that does not belong to you.

That being said it is illegal to do so... if you wish to take that risk, to potentially lose your firearms licence, to be convicted of an offence with firearms which may affect your travel plans and immigrant status for other countries, then I guess you can.... personally I would think that it may not be worth the risk...

I didn't want two post on this retarded thread again but.......you made me bite.
It no wonder farmers are more (precious) these days, 20 years ago stock wasn't getting shot by fucktards that cant find a deer!
Not that long ago a local framer at a popular road end had the shit kicked out off him by hunters who had left a gate open on his farm.
As for your last statement about me wondering around your town section with a gun, how is that any different two you wondering around my farm when I'm out there with my family?

Originally Posted by BRADS

As for your last statement about me wondering around your town section with a gun, how is that any different two you wondering around my farm when I'm out there with my family?

Go and shoot some hedgehogs in his garden, they are unwanted pests after all!

Originally Posted by EeeBees

I think that is unfair criticism...

I hear your comment and respect your right to make it and surely, that is one of the purposes of this site.

However, in this instance, please recollect that this thread has had a number of posts, many containing links to facts on the law of the land as opposed to hearsay. Despite these facts being readily displayed, a poster chose to sail in, apparently without reading the earlier posts and then give another "opinion," which was quickly clearly incorrect and when having to retract it subsequently resorted to personal abuse.

Of course, I ignore both the abuse and the poster, but I am concerned that I may have offended you, a long term contributor to the site and accordingly ask that if you feel I have been unfair, to explain in what way?
Thank You.